Discussion:
[Elecraft] ASTRON RS-20A
Paul Clay
2003-12-05 03:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Anyone using an Astron RS-20A power supply to
power his or her K2/100? If so, with what
results? Do you find it to be a very quiet, very
well regulated supply?

Thanks,
Paul, N6LQ
Lawrence Makoski
2003-12-05 04:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Paul,

I am using one to supply my K1. I've had this thing for close to 20
years now. I think I had to replace one of the main transistors on the
heatsink once; and was able to do that myself with no problem. This is
a very good unit!

73 de Larry W2LJ - Vivat Morse!

***@arrl.net
http://www.qsl.net/w2lj

ARRL Lifemember QRP ARCI #4488 NJQRP #47
FISTS #1469 QRP-L #778 FP #612 QRPp-I #759
ARS #1528 --- K1 #1647 --- AmQRP, CQC #746
Post by Paul Clay
Anyone using an Astron RS-20A power supply to
power his or her K2/100? If so, with what
results? Do you find it to be a very quiet, very
well regulated supply?
Thanks,
Paul, N6LQ
_______________________________________________
Ron D'Eau Claire
2003-12-05 05:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Oh yes, it's FB. It's a linear supply so hash is no issue and it has way
more than enough capacity to handle the K2/100. I've used Astrons for =
years
both in Ham and commercial applications. They're one of the "staple" =
items
of the industry that can be counted on to work and work well.

Being a linear supply, it has a big transformer, so do NOT set your rig =
next
to it! The strong AC field from the transformer will modulate the rig. =
Mine
is on a stool under the operating desk where I can reach the switch, it =
is
about 3 feet from the rig, and it doesn't clutter up the operating desk =
top.


Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
Anyone using an Astron RS-20A power supply to=20
power his or her K2/100? If so, with what=20
results? Do you find it to be a very quiet, very=20
well regulated supply?

Thanks,
Paul, N6LQ
Thomas Beaudry
2003-12-05 08:48:01 UTC
Permalink
I too have used one for about 15 years, the metered version. Excellent
linear power supply and never a problem. I use one in YS also. The
line voltage there sags a good deal several times a day. Never has
caused a problem. I'm still able to get the rated 13.8V out even when
the input sags to around 85V.
Post by Paul Clay
Anyone using an Astron RS-20A power supply to
power his or her K2/100? If so, with what
results? Do you find it to be a very quiet, very
well regulated supply?
Thanks,
Paul, N6LQ
--
Thomas M. Beaudry
k8la / ys1ztm
K2 # 3422
Floyd Sense" (Floyd Sense)
2003-12-05 13:33:01 UTC
Permalink
I think the RS-20A is preferable to the RS-35M. There is considerably more
flux leakage from the transformer in the larger supply (at least in the one
I have) and much more mechanical noise (hum) from the steel cabinet. The
electronics in both supplies is a very old and proven design - any of the
Astrons should perform in a similar fashion when it comes to regulation and
ripple.

K8AC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Clay" <***@cox.net>
To: <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:42 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] ASTRON RS-20A
Post by Paul Clay
Anyone using an Astron RS-20A power supply to
power his or her K2/100? If so, with what
results? Do you find it to be a very quiet, very
well regulated supply?
Thanks,
Paul, N6LQ
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You must be subscribed to post to the list.
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Post by Paul Clay
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
Also see: http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm
Stuart Rohre
2003-12-05 22:58:01 UTC
Permalink
And, as someone pointed out, the RS 20 is fully capable of the supply the
peak and average demand of the K2 and the 100 watts amplifier.

The Astrons linear models are good supplies. The only help they need is to
be run from a spike protected outlet or outlet strip, as in three or more
cases, I have seen them have either the 723 regulator chip, or an internal
MOV on the AC line taken out by lightning nearby hits. However, the fix on
the 723 chip is simple replacement done with minimal soldering tools, and
the addition of a new MOV across the power line.
-Stuart
K5KVH
Timothy A. Raymer
2003-12-05 17:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Paul,

I went with the VS-35M for mine. If you don't need the variable, the
RS-35M is also a good box. I haven't compared them side by side like the
other gentleman had, however. What drove my decision was that the K2/100
would be pushing the RS-20 beyond the 100% rated load and into the
50%ICAS. While they are "good for it" under most conditions, you could
push it into shutdown during some testing, or abnormal loads that cause the
radio to draw more than nominal current.

Do take heed of the notes about separating your radio from the PS. That
problem has come up many times over the years.

Tim Raymer
73 de KA0OUV
Post by Paul Clay
Anyone using an Astron RS-20A power supply to
power his or her K2/100?
73 de KA0OUV

Timothy A. Raymer <***@mail.state.mo.us>
<***@dhss.state.mo.us>
<***@arrl.net>
KXBill
2003-12-05 20:25:03 UTC
Permalink
Thought I would toss this in for what ever it's worth. I have several
Astrons that have taken the back seat for the MFJ 4225MV...They advertise
this PS as having "No Hash" and I must say, I can not detect any on the
bands I operate on. I wanted a small, lightweight PS for traveling, thus the
reason for the purchase. I now use the MFJ for all the DC rigs in the
shack. Seems to work fine, and I hope, will last a long time. They now
offer a smaller PS, <3 amps. Great for traveling qrp operations.
I am not a fan of MFJ, however, in this particular case, their product
met my needs and I am a happy camper. What else could I ask for?
Cheers too all.
Bill_Harriss_w7kxb_85206


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy A. Raymer" <***@mail.state.mo.us>
To: "Paul Clay" <***@cox.net>; <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 08:47
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ASTRON RS-20A
Post by Timothy A. Raymer
Post by Paul Clay
Anyone using an Astron RS-20A power supply to
power his or her K2/100?
73 de KA0OUV
_______________________________________________
You must be subscribed to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Post by Timothy A. Raymer
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
Also see: http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm
Floyd Sense" (Floyd Sense)
2003-12-05 20:53:00 UTC
Permalink
In my experience with switching supplies, the problem has been not with
"hash" but rather with discrete unstable signals that show themselves on 160
meters and down into the broadcast band. I wonder how the MFJ supply is in
that respect. If you don't have the 160 module in your K2, maybe you can
listen to an AM broadcast receiver in the same room while the supply is
turned on. My Alinco DM-330MV has a knob on the front labeled "noise
offset". When you run into one of these unwanted signals, you can turn the
knob slightly and the signal shifts frequency, eliminating the
interference. I'm not sure why the current switching supply vendors have
not seen fit to completely eliminate the interference problem - it's
certainly doable. My old Icom 765 transceiver uses an internal switching
supply and there's not a trace of interference anywhere.

K8AC


----- Original Message -----
From: "KXBill" <KXB-***@cox.net>
To: <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ASTRON RS-20A
Post by KXBill
Thought I would toss this in for what ever it's worth. I have several
Astrons that have taken the back seat for the MFJ 4225MV...They advertise
this PS as having "No Hash" and I must say, I can not detect any on the
bands I operate on. I wanted a small, lightweight PS for traveling, thus the
reason for the purchase. I now use the MFJ for all the DC rigs in the
shack. Seems to work fine, and I hope, will last a long time. They now
offer a smaller PS, <3 amps. Great for traveling qrp operations.
I am not a fan of MFJ, however, in this particular case, their product
met my needs and I am a happy camper. What else could I ask for?
Cheers too all.
Bill_Harriss_w7kxb_85206
Timothy A. Raymer
2003-12-06 01:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Ron,

Thanks for the updated info. I was having problems getting to Astron's web
site when I was typing that, and I was working off of faulty "Grey RAM."

Tim Raymer
73 de KA0OUV
No, it doesn't "push" an Astron 20 amp supply to drive a K2/100 at all. An
Astron 20 amp supply is LOAFING well within it's mfg's specs when driving a
K2/100.
The K2/100 demands intermittent currents up to about 16 A at 100 watts (mine
runs 16 amps at 108 watts 'wide open'). That's total drain for the K2 and
KPA100. And those are intermittent peak currents up to 16 amps.
The ASTRON 20 amp supply is rated for 16 amps continuous! So even if a K2
were to draw 20 amps at full power, it would still be within the "normal"
working range for the Astron 20 amp supply.
The K2 can only make full power output (and consume about 16 amps of
current) with fairly low duty-cycles - SSB peak or CW (if you don't want to
see the KPA100 smoke, you'd better not hold the key down too long in CW
mode).
That's why Elecraft recommends a 20 amp supply. What seems to catch people
is the comment in the KPA100 manual about using a supply rated at 20 amps
"or higher". What they are saying is that if you have a supply with a higher
current rating it won't hurt your K2/100, but it is not any 'better' to do
so.
Remember, the K2/100 is de-rated for high duty-cycle loads like PSK, etc.
Which drops its current demands well below the peak levels, so a 20 Amp
Astron is "loafing" under any set of conditions that the K2/100 can
withstand.
But, even if I wanted to see my K2/100 melt down by putting a book on the
key until it died, the Astron 20 would still be running within its current
ratings. You'll understand if I don't want to demonstrate that. However,
when I first built my KPA100, I only had a Ten-Tec 11 amp (ICAS) supply on
hand. It ran the K2/100 just fine for a couple of weeks at full power before
I picked up my Astron 20. I kept an eye on the heat sink temperature and it
stayed well within it's normal operating range. Clearly, the Ten Tec supply
was build like an Astron - lots of excess capacity.
If you put a good-quality but too small supply on a K2/100, what you will
most likely see is that the rig will suddenly shut off when you go above a
certain power level. Most supplies have a "crowbar" circuit that shuts off
the output if a certain current is exceeded. That protects the supply from
damage in the event of an accidental short.
Where the 35 Amp supply might be handy is if you wanted to run several rigs
from the same supply. Driving a K2/100 wide open, a 20 amp Astron has about
4 amps continuous current capacity for other things. IF you need more than
that, the bigger supply might be better.
With the bigger supply come more weight, much stronger magnetic fields that
must be kept away from the K2, and more noise. The big ones tend to "hum"
noticeably because the field around the transformer vibrates the case.
Personally, I prefer two or three smaller supplies to one BIG one.
Ron AC7AC
-----Original Message-----
I went with the VS-35M for mine.... What drove my decision was that the
K2/100
would be pushing the RS-20 beyond the 100% rated load and into the
50%ICAS.
Tim Raymer
73 de KA0OUV
_______________________________________________
You must be subscribed to post to the list.
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Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
Also see: http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm
Timothy A. Raymer <***@mail.state.mo.us>
Missouri Department of Health <***@dhss.state.mo.us>
and Senior Services
Bob Tellefsen
2003-12-05 21:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Is there a chance that this might be built by another
company, and just house branded for MFJ?
73, Bob N6WG

-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft-***@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-***@mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of KXBill
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:22 AM
To: ***@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ASTRON RS-20A


Thought I would toss this in for what ever it's worth. I have several
Astrons that have taken the back seat for the MFJ 4225MV...They advertise
this PS as having "No Hash" and I must say, I can not detect any on the
bands I operate on. I wanted a small, lightweight PS for traveling, thus the
reason for the purchase. I now use the MFJ for all the DC rigs in the
shack. Seems to work fine, and I hope, will last a long time. They now
offer a smaller PS, <3 amps. Great for traveling qrp operations.
I am not a fan of MFJ, however, in this particular case, their product
met my needs and I am a happy camper. What else could I ask for?
Cheers too all.
Bill_Harriss_w7kxb_85206


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy A. Raymer" <***@mail.state.mo.us>
To: "Paul Clay" <***@cox.net>; <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 08:47
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ASTRON RS-20A
Post by Timothy A. Raymer
Post by Paul Clay
Anyone using an Astron RS-20A power supply to
power his or her K2/100?
73 de KA0OUV
_______________________________________________
You must be subscribed to post to the list.
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Post by Timothy A. Raymer
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
Also see: http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm
_______________________________________________
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Ron D'Eau Claire
2003-12-05 21:40:01 UTC
Permalink
No, it doesn't "push" an Astron 20 amp supply to drive a K2/100 at all. =
An
Astron 20 amp supply is LOAFING well within it's mfg's specs when =
driving a
K2/100.=20

The K2/100 demands intermittent currents up to about 16 A at 100 watts =
(mine
runs 16 amps at 108 watts 'wide open'). That's total drain for the K2 =
and
KPA100. And those are intermittent peak currents up to 16 amps.

The ASTRON 20 amp supply is rated for 16 amps continuous! So even if a =
K2
were to draw 20 amps at full power, it would still be within the =
"normal"
working range for the Astron 20 amp supply.=20

The K2 can only make full power output (and consume about 16 amps of
current) with fairly low duty-cycles - SSB peak or CW (if you don't want =
to
see the KPA100 smoke, you'd better not hold the key down too long in CW
mode).

That's why Elecraft recommends a 20 amp supply. What seems to catch =
people
is the comment in the KPA100 manual about using a supply rated at 20 =
amps
"or higher". What they are saying is that if you have a supply with a =
higher
current rating it won't hurt your K2/100, but it is not any 'better' to =
do
so.=20

Remember, the K2/100 is de-rated for high duty-cycle loads like PSK, =
etc.
Which drops its current demands well below the peak levels, so a 20 Amp
Astron is "loafing" under any set of conditions that the K2/100 can
withstand.=20

But, even if I wanted to see my K2/100 melt down by putting a book on =
the
key until it died, the Astron 20 would still be running within its =
current
ratings. You'll understand if I don't want to demonstrate that. However,
when I first built my KPA100, I only had a Ten-Tec 11 amp (ICAS) supply =
on
hand. It ran the K2/100 just fine for a couple of weeks at full power =
before
I picked up my Astron 20. I kept an eye on the heat sink temperature and =
it
stayed well within it's normal operating range. Clearly, the Ten Tec =
supply
was build like an Astron - lots of excess capacity.=20

If you put a good-quality but too small supply on a K2/100, what you =
will
most likely see is that the rig will suddenly shut off when you go above =
a
certain power level. Most supplies have a "crowbar" circuit that shuts =
off
the output if a certain current is exceeded. That protects the supply =
from
damage in the event of an accidental short.=20

Where the 35 Amp supply might be handy is if you wanted to run several =
rigs
from the same supply. Driving a K2/100 wide open, a 20 amp Astron has =
about
4 amps continuous current capacity for other things. IF you need more =
than
that, the bigger supply might be better.=20

With the bigger supply come more weight, much stronger magnetic fields =
that
must be kept away from the K2, and more noise. The big ones tend to =
"hum"
noticeably because the field around the transformer vibrates the case.
Personally, I prefer two or three smaller supplies to one BIG one.=20

Ron AC7AC



-----Original Message-----
I went with the VS-35M for mine.... What drove my decision was that the
K2/100=20
would be pushing the RS-20 beyond the 100% rated load and into the=20
50%ICAS.
=20
Tim Raymer
73 de KA0OUV
Earl W Cunningham
2003-12-05 22:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Floyd, K8AC wrote:

"In my experience with switching supplies, the problem has been not with
"hash" but rather with discrete unstable signals that show themselves on
160 meters and down into the broadcast band."
==========
No matter how well filtered they are, all switching power supplies
radiate to some extent. If the receive antenna is close to the receiver,
or with "tuned" feeders, then the "hash" or "birdies" will be stronger.
This interference is even worse as you go down in frequency and, as a
low-band DXer, I shy away from any switching supply.

It seems that, as time goes on, more and more of today's ham gear runs on
13.8 VDC. I recently bought a new Astron RS-50M from a non-ham supplier
named "Aventrade" for the bargain price of $209USD ($239 to $259 from the
ham suppliers). Aventrade has a Web site, but I don't have the URL
handy. They also offer RS-20s and RS35s at bargain prices.

The RS-50M replaced my RS-20A (sold) and MFJ-4322 (currently my backup)
and now powers all of my DC equipment effortlessly, and no need to worry
about any interference from it. I'm very pleased with it.

73, de Earl, K6SE
Paul Clay
2003-12-06 03:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Wow, Jim. You found this to be true for the
regulated, vice switching, supplies?

I have an Astron SS-10 that works well with my 2
meter rig but that does seem to generate a fair
amount of noise. I have used it with the K2
(with no KPA-100) and it works acceptably well,
but the noise is somewhat discernable. More
troublesome, is that while the supply is on, the
noise picked up on my Icom R75 receiver (which
isn't even plugged into my switcher) is pretty
bad, being so bad that my Idom Press SCAF-1 audio
filter (a great device by the way - right now I'm
only using it with the Icom, but I want to plug
it in to my K2 to see what I can do with both it
and the K2's DSP module being available) is
pretty much un-usable (the switching noise is
LOUD).

So, as I prepare to buy and build a KPA100 to add
to my K2, I've decided to forgo the small size
and light weight of a switching PS to something
that is as quiet as I can get. Based on the eHam
reviews (many reviews, all highly favorable), the
Astron RS-20A seemed to be just the ticket.

- Paul, N6LQ
Paul,
I would not use one on any
ham equipment of mine! Just put one on a dummy
load, like a car headlamp,
and then look at the ripple components on an
O'scope. The amount of ripple
on the Astrons that I have personally seen at
about a 50% of rated capacity
load is terrible!
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