Discussion:
[Elecraft] High Power PA Option vs. Auto-Tuner and Battery Options
Kirby Davis
2002-01-09 19:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Hello! I'm a new member to the reflector and soon-to-be Elecraft builder/owner
and have a couple of questions that I hope someone might be able to help me
with. I'm also waiting for confirmation of my upgrade to General class (i.e.,
I'm a relatively new ham) so please excuse my lack of knowledge! I've decided
upon the K2 as my first HF rig since I'm more than impressed with everything
that I've heard and read about it. Also, I'm looking forward to increasing my
knowledge and skills regarding amateur radio through the actual building
process.

I'm currently trying to decide upon what options to order along with the basic
K2. I know that I'm going to get the SSB since I'm not yet where I need to be
with code. I had also planned to get the auto antenna tuner and battery
options. However, I noticed on the web site that the PA option and the antenna
tuner/internal battery combination can't coexist with one another (i.e., its
an either/or situation).

My questions are:

1. Rather than get the PA option and forfeit the other two options, would
another option be to get an amplifier to up the power of the base K2 and keep
the other two options? Or, does the 20W limit on the auto antenna tuner
prevent the use of an amplifier on a base K2?

2. Any other comments/assistance regarding the pros/cons of the various
options (including "purchase them and build them now when your building the
base K2" vs "its just as simple to build and install them later to the base
K2" suggestions) would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

... Kirby
lhlousek
2002-01-09 20:04:02 UTC
Permalink
<<I know that I'm going to get the SSB since I'm not yet where I
need to be with code.>>

Sounds more like a reason NOT to get the SSB option ;-)

The KAT2 won't handle the power of the KPA100 but, eventually, there will be an
ATU for the KPA100. The KPA and its ATU can be built into the accessory
enclosure. When the KPA100 and it's ATU are attached, the K2 will recognize it
and control them as if they are installed, bypassing the KAT2.

I'd recommend sticking with 10W and getting and KAT2. The KNB2 is simple to add
and is helpful if you have noise of the type it is designed to handle. The KAF2
is a very nice addition too (particularly for CW) but it can be added at any
time.

Later, the KPA100 and it's ATU can be added in the outboard enclosure.

Then you'll have a great portable QRP rig which converts to a great QRO rig
simply by plugging into the amp.

Lou W7DZN
c***@extremezone.com
2002-01-09 20:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Ditto Lou's thinking - that's the real beauty of the long range Elecraft idea -
you get all the best of both worlds. 73/KB7OEX Tim
Post by lhlousek
<<I know that I'm going to get the SSB since I'm not yet where I
need to be with code.>>
Sounds more like a reason NOT to get the SSB option ;-)
The KAT2 won't handle the power of the KPA100 but, eventually, there will be an
ATU for the KPA100. The KPA and its ATU can be built into the
accessory
enclosure. When the KPA100 and it's ATU are attached, the K2 will recognize it
and control them as if they are installed, bypassing the KAT2.
I'd recommend sticking with 10W and getting and KAT2. The KNB2 is simple to add
and is helpful if you have noise of the type it is designed to handle. The KAF2
is a very nice addition too (particularly for CW) but it can be added at any
time.
Later, the KPA100 and it's ATU can be added in the outboard enclosure.
Then you'll have a great portable QRP rig which converts to a great QRO rig
simply by plugging into the amp.
Lou W7DZN
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Elecraft mailing list
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
Mark J. Dulcey
2002-01-09 20:07:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kirby Davis
1. Rather than get the PA option and forfeit the other two options, would
another option be to get an amplifier to up the power of the base K2 and keep
the other two options? Or, does the 20W limit on the auto antenna tuner
prevent the use of an amplifier on a base K2?
The catch is that such an amplifier can't legally be sold in the US. If
it weren't for that little complication, your plan would work just fine.
Tokyo Hy-Power makes a nice line of QRP-capable HF amplifiers, if you're
willing to go abroad to buy one.

The 20W limit of the auto-tuner would have no effect on amplifier use,
since the tuner would be before the amp. Of course, it would also have
no effect on antenna tuning in that setup; if you wanted both high power
and automatic tuning, you'd need a higher-power tuner to follow the amp,
or an amp with a built-in tuner (if such a thing exists).

Elecraft has talked about a higher-power tuner as a companion piece for
the KPA100. It's not an announced product, though, so it may or may not
happen.
Post by Kirby Davis
2. Any other comments/assistance regarding the pros/cons of the various
options (including "purchase them and build them now when your building the
base K2" vs "its just as simple to build and install them later to the base
K2" suggestions) would be greatly appreciated!
Whether or not you buy the options right away, you should certainly
build and test the base rig first. If you have the options on hand right
off, you can install some of the connectors during the initial build
(the instructions tell you which ones and where they go), saving a bit
of disassembly later.

When you later install the options, you do have to remove a few jumpers
and components from the K2 circuit boards, which can be a pain. An
alternative is to build the "un-modules" that I designed
(http://mail.buttery.org/mark/unmodule/); they let you build the rig
without the modules (but with the connectors), and later add the modules
without any main board rework.
lhlousek
2002-01-09 20:26:00 UTC
Permalink
<<The catch is that such an amplifier can't legally be sold in the US.>>

It can't be sold as a separate amplifier but it can and will be sold as a part
for a QRO K2. Anybody that has a K2 can get the KPA100 as part for it...and, if
slightly enterprising, can build it into a separate enclosure.

Lou W7DZN
Francis Belliveau
2002-01-10 03:38:19 UTC
Permalink
On: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:25 PM
Lou W7DZN
Post by lhlousek
<<The catch is that such an amplifier can't legally be sold in the US.>>
It can't be sold as a separate amplifier but it can and will be sold as a part
for a QRO K2. Anybody that has a K2 can get the KPA100 as part for it...and, if
slightly enterprising, can build it into a separate enclosure.
To this I say that I expect the hardest part of building the KPA100 into an
EC2 box will be punching the holes and building the interface cables.
Elecraft has stated that is will violate FCC rules to provide that as a kit.
However this does not prevent one of us from doing so.

There will be a tuner for use with the KPA100 that will fit in the bottom of
the enclosure without a problem. That will be sold as a kit when it has
been designed.

One last point about QRP versus QRO: antenna gain can often make up for
lack or power. Be sure to put some effort into an antenna system even if
you plan to go for full QRO.

Welcome to the group and good luck.

Fran, KA4FRH
K2 s/n 314
Jonathan Taylor, K1RFD
2002-01-09 20:22:27 UTC
Permalink
I agree with Lou. The best way to boost your code speed, and to develop an
appreciation for CW, is to get on the air with it. You may discover a skill
that will bring a lifetime of enjoyment.

-----Original Message-----
From: lhlousek <***@nvbell.net>
To: Kirby Davis <***@usa.net>; ***@mailman.qth.net
<***@mailman.qth.net>
Date: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] High Power PA Option vs. Auto-Tuner and Battery
Options
Post by lhlousek
<<I know that I'm going to get the SSB since I'm not yet where I
need to be with code.>>
Sounds more like a reason NOT to get the SSB option ;-)
c***@extremezone.com
2002-01-09 20:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Ditto on Lou's cw comment too. I started cw 2 months after my General, joined
FISTS and got a Code Buddy. I got discourgaed using cw learning programs
but then got on the air. Getting on the air is the key.....there are patient
people out there believe it or not. As soon as I got on the air with cw, I quit
using SSB because cw is a total blast and a great challenge - and the ops you
meet are pretty neat helpful people. 73/KB7OEX Tim
Post by Jonathan Taylor, K1RFD
I agree with Lou. The best way to boost your code speed, and to develop an
appreciation for CW, is to get on the air with it. You may discover a skill
that will bring a lifetime of enjoyment.
-----Original Message-----
Date: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] High Power PA Option vs. Auto-Tuner and Battery
Options
Post by lhlousek
<<I know that I'm going to get the SSB since I'm not yet where I
need to be with code.>>
Sounds more like a reason NOT to get the SSB option ;-)
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Elecraft mailing list
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
r***@staffnet.com
2002-01-09 20:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by lhlousek
but it can and will be sold as a part
for a QRO K2.
According to Ten Tec, several years ago the FCC specifically told them that they could *not* sell an amplifier module to be placed inside of one of their QRP rigs. They say the FCC still considered an "external" amp.
Ron D' Eau Claire
2002-01-09 20:52:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by lhlousek
<<The catch is that such an amplifier can't legally be sold in the US.>>
It can't be sold as a separate amplifier but it can and will be
sold as a part
for a QRO K2. Anybody that has a K2 can get the KPA100 as part
for it...and, if
slightly enterprising, can build it into a separate enclosure.
Lou W7DZN
There's also an excellent series of "kit" amps that will produce from 100 to
several hundred watts output available from CCI
(http://www.communication-concepts.com/index.html).

See the Builder's Resources/Application Notes/A Homebrew 100 Watt External
Amp for the K2 on the Elecraft web site for an example of a 100 watt version
built by Bob, NC6M.

They are sold legally in the US apparently because they aren't 'turn key'
solutions. They require you to choose the amplifier board you want (for the
desired output power) then choose the output filters you want (for the bands
you want to cover). Bandswitching, T/R switching, enclosure and power supply
design are left up to the builder.

For that reason, I'd not recommend them to a new builder, but they are one
solution to the quest for more power.

Ron AC7AC
K2 # 1289
David A. Belsley
2002-01-09 22:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Kirby:
First, congrats on the general.
Post by Kirby Davis
I'm currently trying to decide upon what options to order along with the
basic K2. I know that I'm going to get the SSB since I'm not yet where I
need to be with code.
You are going to have a much harder, if not impossible, time getting to
"where you want to be with code" if you don't use it and use it a lot.
Once established doing SSB, it is much less likely you will progress with
code. Of course, if that's "where you want to be with code," then that's a
different story. If, however, you really want code, then get the code
related stuff for the K2 and do it.

best wishes,

dave belsley, w1euy

----------------------------
David A. Belsley
Professor of Economics
Terry Kniffen
2002-01-10 03:12:00 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Kniffen <***@home.com>
To: Kirby Davis <***@usa.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] High Power PA Option vs. Auto-Tuner and Battery
Options
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 1:26 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] High Power PA Option vs. Auto-Tuner and Battery
Options
Hi Kirby - Good questions for the time.
Post by Kirby Davis
I'm currently trying to decide upon what options to order along with the
basic
Post by Kirby Davis
K2. I know that I'm going to get the SSB since I'm not yet where I need
to
be
Post by Kirby Davis
with code. I had also planned to get the auto antenna tuner and battery
options. However, I noticed on the web site that the PA option and the
antenna
Post by Kirby Davis
tuner/internal battery combination can't coexist with one another (i.e.,
its
Post by Kirby Davis
an either/or situation).
1. Rather than get the PA option and forfeit the other two options,
would
Post by Kirby Davis
another option be to get an amplifier to up the power of the base K2 and
keep
Post by Kirby Davis
the other two options? Or, does the 20W limit on the auto antenna tuner
prevent the use of an amplifier on a base K2?
Obviously, and for good reason there are a lot of unanswered questions
concerning the KPA100. Specifically, where can we put it, how do we connect
it (thru-out our system), etc, etc. My advice would be to get the basic K2,
with perhaps the SSB and the KAF2 Filter options (options are in the eye
of
the builder). I leave out the AUT for the time-being only because I'm not
sure if the new set up will allow us to be both QRP and QRO conveniently,
(flip of a switch, as it were). If you are on a budget, as most of us are,
this will get you started with a great radio and give you a chance for the
dust to settle on the PA issue. And IMHO, there will be plenty of dust (all
most welcome). Building the basic K2 is a great learning experience in
many
respects. To believe this is to just follow this reflector. Having all this
expertise at your finger tips will give you all the help you need.

Best of luck and 73 Terry KF4FD K2#2008
Post by Kirby Davis
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Elecraft mailing list
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
N***@aol.com
2002-01-12 23:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by David A. Belsley
Post by Kirby Davis
I'm currently trying to decide upon what options to order along with the
basic K2. I know that I'm going to get the SSB since I'm not yet where I
need to be with code.
You are going to have a much harder, if not impossible, time getting to
"where you want to be with code" if you don't use it and use it a lot.
Once established doing SSB, it is much less likely you will progress with
code. Of course, if that's "where you want to be with code," then that's
a
Post by David A. Belsley
different story. If, however, you really want code, then get the code
related stuff for the K2 and do it.
Kirby & group,

Dave is right on the money with this advice. The way to get "where you want
to be with code" is to USE it as much as possible. Rag chews, contests, Dx
hunting, traffic handling, W1AW, computer software - it all helps. Have the
rig on and tuned to a CW station while you are doing something else - it
becomes background music.

The K2 is such a good CW rig that it's perfect for getting you where you want
to be.

73 de Jim, N2EY

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