Discussion:
[Elecraft] K3 & Competition
S Sacco
2010-02-14 19:45:34 UTC
Permalink
While at the Orlando Hamcation, I stopped by the Kenwood booth.

The sales dude mentioned that Kenwood would be introducing something
in the "K3 class, as far as performance, but better".

I thought that was wonderful compliment for Elecraft, that they
specifically singled out the K3 as the benchmark.

Who knows if it'll be better, or not. Radios are so much about the
software anymore, that without outstanding software controlling every
aspect of the radio, the hardware, no matter how good, just won't be
able to make up the difference. Personally, I'd put my money on
Elecraft.

He also mentioned that they'd have a "big radio" (presumably
positioned against the FT-9000 / IC-7800) "sometime" in 2011.

Anyway I thought I'd pass that along, FYI as they say.

73,
Steve
NN4X
EL98jh
Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
2010-02-14 20:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Steve,

Did the Kenwood sales dude give any hint as to what would be better?

Software 'aint everything :-)

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD


S Sacco wrote on Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 7:45 PM
Post by S Sacco
While at the Orlando Hamcation, I stopped by the Kenwood booth.
The sales dude mentioned that Kenwood would be introducing something
in the "K3 class, as far as performance, but better".
<snip>
S Sacco
2010-02-14 21:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Geoff -

He was very vague, hinting only that it would be a better performer,
and did not provide further details.

I did not mention, but meant to, that this new Kenwood would be
unveiled at Dayton this year, so we'll know more soon.

73,
Steve
NN4X



On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Steve,
Did the Kenwood sales dude give any hint as to what would be better?
Software 'aint everything :-)
73,
Geoff
GM4ESD
S Sacco wrote on Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 7:45 PM
Post by S Sacco
While at the Orlando Hamcation, I stopped by the Kenwood booth.
The sales dude mentioned that Kenwood would be introducing something
in the "K3 class, as far as performance, but better".
<snip>
Julian, G4ILO
2010-02-14 21:21:32 UTC
Permalink
I wouldn't expect much from a manufacturer whose top radio for the last
decade has been the shack in a box TS-2000 and which has not been a player
in the top end of the market since the 1990s. In recent years I really got
the impression ham radio isn't that important for Kenwood.

-----
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
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Joe Planisky
2010-02-14 21:19:50 UTC
Permalink
Maybe it'll have titanium knobs. :-)

73
--
Joe <ducking and running for cover>
KB8AP
Post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Steve,
Did the Kenwood sales dude give any hint as to what would be better?
Software 'aint everything :-)
73,
Geoff
GM4ESD
Phil Hystad
2010-02-15 00:10:04 UTC
Permalink
This is the first message today on this reflector that made me laugh out loud.
Post by Joe Planisky
Maybe it'll have titanium knobs. :-)
73
--
Joe <ducking and running for cover>
KB8AP
Post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Steve,
Did the Kenwood sales dude give any hint as to what would be better?
Software 'aint everything :-)
73,
Geoff
GM4ESD
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Bob - W0GI
2010-02-15 01:16:25 UTC
Permalink
The sales dude mentioned that Kenwood would be introducing something
in the "K3 class, as far as performance, but better".

Talk is cheap.......But the fact is, Kenwood, Icom, and Yaesu have had the
ability for a long long time to make receivers with good close-in blocking.
But they always seem to put the dollars into bells and whistles, and lots of
buttons and knobs.

The Yaesu FT-5000 is the first Japanese rig that will probably be up there
with Elecraft, Ten-Tec, and Flex in close-in blocking and dynamic range. But
$6000-$8000? Not me, I'll keep my Mark-V for SSB and some CW, and use the K3
for tough conditions.

For SSB, the Mark-V sounds great, and is very convenient to use. For crowded
CW, the K3 is amazing, and not hard to use at all. It is a fine replacement
for my T-T Corsair.

After adding the LP-Pan, and using PowerSDR-IF and CW Skimmer, I just don't
know what else I would want in a station.

I guess we will see what Kenwood comes up with. I had a TS-950SD before the
Mark-V, and it was another fine radio, but the K3 is in a class all it's own
for CW.
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NZ0T
2010-02-15 16:49:35 UTC
Permalink
"Talk is cheap.......But the fact is, Kenwood, Icom, and Yaesu have had the
ability for a long long time to make receivers with good close-in blocking.
But they always seem to put the dollars into bells and whistles, and lots of
buttons and knobs."

Just like their cars. Glitz over performance and much of the populous goes
for the glitz though I'm sure many Toyota owners are regretting their
purchase now. The K3 reminds me of a hi performance German car ala BMW.
Not as much glitz but tons of performance when one needs it.

Kenwood will screw it up. But then again I have a couple of friends that
think their FT-2000 is much better than the K3. Different strokes....
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Ted Roycraft
2010-02-15 16:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Toyotas and glitzy in the same sentence ... interesting.

BMW not glitzy???
Post by NZ0T
"Talk is cheap.......But the fact is, Kenwood, Icom, and Yaesu have had the
ability for a long long time to make receivers with good close-in blocking.
But they always seem to put the dollars into bells and whistles, and lots of
buttons and knobs."
Just like their cars. Glitz over performance and much of the populous goes
for the glitz though I'm sure many Toyota owners are regretting their
purchase now. The K3 reminds me of a hi performance German car ala BMW.
Not as much glitz but tons of performance when one needs it.
Kenwood will screw it up. But then again I have a couple of friends that
think their FT-2000 is much better than the K3. Different strokes....
Matt Zilmer
2010-02-15 17:11:48 UTC
Permalink
How about "glitchy" then....

matt W6NIA
Post by Ted Roycraft
Toyotas and glitzy in the same sentence ... interesting.
BMW not glitzy???
Post by NZ0T
"Talk is cheap.......But the fact is, Kenwood, Icom, and Yaesu have had the
ability for a long long time to make receivers with good close-in blocking.
But they always seem to put the dollars into bells and whistles, and lots of
buttons and knobs."
Just like their cars. Glitz over performance and much of the populous goes
for the glitz though I'm sure many Toyota owners are regretting their
purchase now. The K3 reminds me of a hi performance German car ala BMW.
Not as much glitz but tons of performance when one needs it.
Kenwood will screw it up. But then again I have a couple of friends that
think their FT-2000 is much better than the K3. Different strokes....
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NZ0T
2010-02-15 19:45:36 UTC
Permalink
Not compared to the Rice Rockets! ;)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Roycraft [via Elecraft]
To: NZ0T
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: K3 & Competition


Toyotas and glitzy in the same sentence ... interesting.

BMW not glitzy???
Post by NZ0T
"Talk is cheap.......But the fact is, Kenwood, Icom, and Yaesu have had the
ability for a long long time to make receivers with good close-in blocking.
But they always seem to put the dollars into bells and whistles, and lots of
buttons and knobs."
Just like their cars. Glitz over performance and much of the populous goes
for the glitz though I'm sure many Toyota owners are regretting their
purchase now. The K3 reminds me of a hi performance German car ala BMW.
Not as much glitz but tons of performance when one needs it.
Kenwood will screw it up. But then again I have a couple of friends that
think their FT-2000 is much better than the K3. Different strokes....
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Julian, G4ILO
2010-02-15 22:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by NZ0T
The K3 reminds me of a hi performance German car ala BMW.
I think of it as more of a Ferrari. Top performance but to get the best you
need to tweak it.

Not as good at pulling the chicks though. I imagine. Perhaps red paint
should be an option.

-----
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* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
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lstavenhagen
2010-02-15 01:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Heck they're still trying to catch up to the K2.... and Icom and Yeasu too.
And I dont think any of them yet make a rig with the performance of the K3
at all...

LS
W5QD, K2 #6880
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juergen
2010-02-15 02:46:53 UTC
Permalink
I would not be so dismissive of the competition. The emotional value of the Kenwood name in ham radio is well known. The Kenwood name is still hugely popular. Who does not comment about "kenwood audio quality"

You joke about catching up with the K2. The Kenwood TS830s is a 30 year old radio that has performance thats better than the K2 in many areas. It is the case of the K2 catching up with the 30 year old TS830S!

I would suggest that if Kenwood released a updated version of the TS950SDX or Kenwood TS870S model radios it would be a top seller. This would be especially so if the performance matched the K3. Just try buying any one of these models in good condition, good luck!

The TS870S was radio that was many years ahead of its time. It introduced concepts that we take for granted today. Many of these concepts that we take for granted were pioneered by Kenwood in the TS870S.

Just because Kenwood is not releasing numerous models of transceiver does not mean its not interested in the ham radio market. The board of Kenwood Japan still has a few hams on it including that of the founding family. It has been said in numerous places that the ham division of kenwood was not closed had it not been for these ham board members who had an emotional attachment with this hobby and its role in the companies history.

Kenwood could release a new model transceiver every month if it wanted to do that. Its in-house engineering and development department is much bigger than Yaesu or Icoms. Most of the engineers at Icom and Vertex got most of their training at Kenwood. Alinco is a company that is very good at poaching Kenwood Engineers and designing the same products with their name on it.

In reality I prefer the way Kenwood does things. The Kenwood TS480HX is a good example of this. Well researched, well designed and well built. Turning out radios like Icom does full of bugs and component failure is certainly not very professional.

I am sure if Kenwood designed the IC7700 it would not have PA device failure, or static problems when you touched the radio.

There is 2 rumors going around. The first is that Kenwood is designing a direct sampling super HF transceiver. This rumor comes from a good source who indicates that the radio was being developed for the Japanese services. This came about because of Kenwoods links with JRC who have essentially closed down their HF radio manufacturing division.

The second rumour is that Kenwood is also designing a K3 like radio. This makes good sense because this is what market wants. The last thing we need is a another 70mhz IF radio with below average performance.

All of these long debates we have been having about receiver and transmitter performance is only going to result in better products for us all. The only losers in this debate are the manufacturers who cant deliver performance. Those who insist on charge ridiculous prices for sub-standard products that dont meet the needs of the market will suffer. You can only rely on a color screen, a big box and 20,000 knobs for so long before the customers wake up and realize its just hot air and will ask for better performance.

We know that the better performance cant be delivered with the up conversion architecture, so dont be surprised if there is a 9mhz IF radio with a huge color screen some time soon! If Elecraft wants to keep its market share it cant just rest on its receiver laurels either.

John
From: lstavenhagen <lstavenhagen at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 5:37 PM
Heck they're still trying to catch up to the K2.... and
Icom and Yeasu too.
And I dont think any of them yet make a rig with the
performance of the K3
at all...
LS
W5QD, K2 #6880
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lstavenhagen
2010-02-15 03:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Well yeah that's kind of my point. The competition lost my business because
of the gadgeteering rather than offering good basic performance. If Kenwood
still made the 530 and 830, I'd probably have bought one by now (I used to
have a 530S, it was lovely and I never should have sold it).

Otherwise, it's all just too many big screens with overly complicated,
fragile, crashing and buggy software and not enough basic performance and
value. I havn't been able to pull the trigger on a rig since I bought my
706MKIIG back in college because I just havn't been able to find an
acceptable bang/buck in an HF rig since then. I've long since become
inactive as a result (my ticket had even expired but was fortunately still
within the grace period when I sent my renewal into FCC last year, whew!).

That is, until I discovered elecraft. I just buttoned up the cover on my K2
a couple days ago and am already absolutely amazed with its wonderful RX and
CW performance. Couldn't care less that it doesn't have a band scope - I can
hear weak sigs down in the noise even while that s9+20 lid is calling CQ on
top of them 1 or 2 kc's away and can hear them. Just hit XFIL and he's out
of the picture hi hi.

So that's how elecraft got me as a convert. At some point, you need a rig
that works for what you want to do with it. For me, that's already my K2. I
thought long and hard about a K3 as well, but it's a little out of my budget
for now. Plus, I could build my K2, which I really wanted to do too.

LS
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Bob - W0GI
2010-02-15 04:28:13 UTC
Permalink
<<<<<<<<<<<<
You joke about catching up with the K2. The Kenwood TS830s is a 30 year old
radio that has performance thats better than the K2 in many areas. It is
the case of the K2 catching up with the 30 year old TS830S!
The TS-830S was/is a fine radio. It is a prime example of the error of
adding general coverage to HF rigs. It was ham band only, and better then
80% of the current rigs.

Receiver performance has gone down hill, just to add general coverage and a
zillion buttons. Not the case with my old Ten-Tec Corsair or the Omni-V. I
had a Paragon for a while, and it was ok, but not up to the ham band only
rigs.

What Elecraft did with the K2, is design a Ham HF rig for top performance on
our bands. Single conversion like my old Corsair, that works very well.

I hesitated to sell the Corsair and the Omni-V, as they are first class CW
rigs, but the K3 is incredible. I don't miss them at all, other then for
sentimental reasons. I needed K3 money, and they got sold.

No matter what the future holds, we can thank Elecraft for putting a fire
under those Japanese butts.

Some of us want performance. Where they still don't get it, is they will
continue to produce performance by price point.

If you want top performance, you will also pay for buttons, knobs, and HD
LCD screens, and pay top dollar.

Yes, they can design radios that perform, but they won't perform until you
pay $6000+.

I have had my new K3 online for 12 days. It now has an LP-Pan, HRD,
PowerSDR, and CW skimmer configured, and there is nothing for any price that
can perform better. Maybe an IC-7800 doesn't need all the interface boxes
and wires, but I like this setup, and it was 1/4 the price.

I am so impressed with this setup, that I doubt I will even think about a
new rig for a long, long time. I still like the Mark-V, but I have a feeling
that it may be gone soon, as I get used to the K2 ergonomics. But the Mark-V
is a good SWL radio. :>)

For now, I am finishing setup, and I am just going to work stations. A lot
of stations, with a big smile on my face.

73 - Bob
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Philippe Trottet
2010-02-15 05:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Dear Bob,
Welcome to the club
I answered you outside the Elecraft list about my mic settings and small trick learn when joined the Army in the early seventies.
We are all surprised at the starting point because we have do to our own setup as the majority of parameters are adjustable and compare to other "limousine" rigs, the K3 is a "Nascar" rig where you must always adjust to get it best on any situation like on a race track where you can go beyond the limit if needed and this waked up my Ham spirit after decades using rigs where everything is on a plate...plug and play, no fun !

Bst 73's
Philippe A65BI
K3#3616
*Elecraft, by Hams, for Hams...What else ?
Bob - W0GI <bob at gotoloveland.com> 15-02-2010 8:28 >>>
<<<<<<<<<<<<
You joke about catching up with the K2. The Kenwood TS830s is a 30 year old
radio that has performance thats better than the K2 in many areas. It is
the case of the K2 catching up with the 30 year old TS830S!
The TS-830S was/is a fine radio. It is a prime example of the error of
adding general coverage to HF rigs. It was ham band only, and better then
80% of the current rigs.

Receiver performance has gone down hill, just to add general coverage and a
zillion buttons. Not the case with my old Ten-Tec Corsair or the Omni-V. I
had a Paragon for a while, and it was ok, but not up to the ham band only
rigs.

What Elecraft did with the K2, is design a Ham HF rig for top performance on
our bands. Single conversion like my old Corsair, that works very well.

I hesitated to sell the Corsair and the Omni-V, as they are first class CW
rigs, but the K3 is incredible. I don't miss them at all, other then for
sentimental reasons. I needed K3 money, and they got sold.

No matter what the future holds, we can thank Elecraft for putting a fire
under those Japanese butts.

Some of us want performance. Where they still don't get it, is they will
continue to produce performance by price point.

If you want top performance, you will also pay for buttons, knobs, and HD
LCD screens, and pay top dollar.

Yes, they can design radios that perform, but they won't perform until you
pay $6000+.

I have had my new K3 online for 12 days. It now has an LP-Pan, HRD,
PowerSDR, and CW skimmer configured, and there is nothing for any price that
can perform better. Maybe an IC-7800 doesn't need all the interface boxes
and wires, but I like this setup, and it was 1/4 the price.

I am so impressed with this setup, that I doubt I will even think about a
new rig for a long, long time. I still like the Mark-V, but I have a feeling
that it may be gone soon, as I get used to the K2 ergonomics. But the Mark-V
is a good SWL radio. :>)

For now, I am finishing setup, and I am just going to work stations. A lot
of stations, with a big smile on my face.

73 - Bob
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juergen
2010-02-15 04:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gary

Who suggested that the TS480 is somehow better than the K3? Radios with 60 db IMD dynamic range are substandard.

The Kenwood TS480S is well designed and very well constructed radio that has very few flaws. The PA stage is also very well constructed. Compared to the FT857 and the IC7000 the TS480 is built like a tank.

The Elecraft designers are Kenwood fans, that says a lot!

John
From: rfenabled at gmail.com <rfenabled at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
To: "juergen" <plebian99 at yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 8:00 PM
No way is the TS-480 series a "great
kenwood radio", it has a very average receiver, no notch
filter and does a 2nd rate job in the shack.
As a mobile I would rate it a 7 out of 10
If kenwood want to compete with the K3 they will have to
lift their game a lot.
73's
Gary
VK4FD
Sent via BlackBerry? from Telstra
-----Original Message-----
From: juergen <plebian99 at yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:46:53
To: <elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
I would not be so dismissive of the competition. The
emotional value of the Kenwood name in ham radio is well
known. The Kenwood name is still hugely popular. Who does
not comment about "kenwood audio quality"
You joke about? catching up with the K2. The Kenwood
TS830s is a 30 year old radio that has? performance
thats better? than? the K2 in many areas. It is
the case of the K2 catching up with the 30 year old TS830S!
I would suggest that if Kenwood released a updated version
of the TS950SDX or Kenwood TS870S? model radios?
it would be a top seller.? This would be especially so
if the performance matched the K3.? Just try buying any
one of these models in good condition, good luck!
The TS870S was radio that was many years ahead of its time.
It introduced concepts that? we take for granted today.
Many of these concepts that we take for granted
were???pioneered by Kenwood in the TS870S.
Just because Kenwood is not releasing numerous models of
transceiver does not mean its not interested in the ham
radio market. The board of Kenwood Japan still has a few
hams on it including that of the founding family. It has
been said in numerous places that the ham division of
kenwood was? not closed had it not been for these?
ham board members who had an emotional attachment with this
hobby and its role in the companies history.
Kenwood could release a new model transceiver every month
if it wanted to do that. Its in-house engineering? and
development? department is much bigger than Yaesu or
Icoms. Most of the engineers at Icom and Vertex got most of
their training at Kenwood.? Alinco is a company that is
very good at poaching Kenwood Engineers and designing the
same products with their name on it.
In reality I prefer the way Kenwood does things. The
Kenwood TS480HX is a good example of this. Well researched,
well designed and well built.? Turning out radios like
Icom does? full of bugs and component failure is
certainly not very professional.?
I am sure if Kenwood designed the IC7700 it would not have
PA device failure, or static problems when you touched the
radio.
There is 2 rumors going around. The first is that Kenwood
is designing a direct sampling super HF transceiver. This
rumor comes? from a good source who indicates that the
radio was being developed for the Japanese services. This
came about because of Kenwoods links with JRC who have
essentially closed down their HF radio manufacturing
division.
The second? rumour is that? Kenwood is?
also designing a K3 like radio.? This makes good?
sense because this is what market wants. The last thing we
need is a another 70mhz IF radio with below average
performance.
All of these long debates we have been having about
receiver and transmitter performance is only going to result
in better products for us all. The only losers in this
debate are the manufacturers who cant deliver performance.
Those who insist on charge ridiculous prices for
sub-standard products that dont meet the needs? of the
market will suffer.? You can only rely on a color
screen, a big box and 20,000 knobs for so long before the
customers? wake up and realize its just hot air and
will ask for better performance.
We know that the better performance cant be delivered with
the up conversion architecture, so dont be surprised
if? there is a 9mhz IF radio with a huge color screen
some time soon! If Elecraft wants to keep its market share
it cant just rest on its receiver laurels either.
John
--- On Sun, 2/14/10, lstavenhagen <lstavenhagen at hotmail.com>
From: lstavenhagen <lstavenhagen at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 5:37 PM
Heck they're still trying to catch up to the K2....
and
Icom and Yeasu too.
And I dont think any of them yet make a rig with the
performance of the K3
at all...
LS
W5QD, K2 #6880
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Joe Subich, W4TV
2010-02-15 06:16:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by juergen
In reality I prefer the way Kenwood does things. The Kenwood
TS480HX is a good example of this. Well researched, well
designed and well built. Turning out radios like Icom does
full of bugs and component failure is certainly not very
professional.
And who says the TS-480 is without serious bugs? Start with
the microphone connector ... Kenwood have reversed the PTT
and mic audio grounds. Such a reversal guarantees hum and
RFI problems if an external device (e.g., soundcard, audio
processor, equalizer, etc.) is connected to the mic input.

Kenwood is very aware of the issue - it is even documented in
the service manual. However, production units have not been
fixed, the user's manual does not have a corrected mic jack
documentation and the hand microphones have not been changed
to correspond to the actual wiring of the mic jack.

This problem has existed without public acknowledgement or fix
for almost as long as the Toyota accelerator problem. On the
other hand, Elecraft acknowledged and fixed the "pin 1" problem
on their microphones within weeks of its identification and
confirmation.

73,

... Joe, W4TV
Post by juergen
-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of juergen
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:47 PM
To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
I would not be so dismissive of the competition. The
emotional value of the Kenwood name in ham radio is well
known. The Kenwood name is still hugely popular. Who does not
comment about "kenwood audio quality"
You joke about catching up with the K2. The Kenwood TS830s
is a 30 year old radio that has performance thats better
than the K2 in many areas. It is the case of the K2 catching
up with the 30 year old TS830S!
I would suggest that if Kenwood released a updated version of
the TS950SDX or Kenwood TS870S model radios it would be a
top seller. This would be especially so if the performance
matched the K3. Just try buying any one of these models in
good condition, good luck!
The TS870S was radio that was many years ahead of its time.
It introduced concepts that we take for granted today. Many
of these concepts that we take for granted were pioneered
by Kenwood in the TS870S.
Just because Kenwood is not releasing numerous models of
transceiver does not mean its not interested in the ham radio
market. The board of Kenwood Japan still has a few hams on it
including that of the founding family. It has been said in
numerous places that the ham division of kenwood was not
closed had it not been for these ham board members who had
an emotional attachment with this hobby and its role in the
companies history.
Kenwood could release a new model transceiver every month if
it wanted to do that. Its in-house engineering and
development department is much bigger than Yaesu or Icoms.
Most of the engineers at Icom and Vertex got most of their
training at Kenwood. Alinco is a company that is very good
at poaching Kenwood Engineers and designing the same products
with their name on it.
In reality I prefer the way Kenwood does things. The Kenwood
TS480HX is a good example of this. Well researched, well
designed and well built. Turning out radios like Icom does
full of bugs and component failure is certainly not very
professional.
I am sure if Kenwood designed the IC7700 it would not have PA
device failure, or static problems when you touched the radio.
There is 2 rumors going around. The first is that Kenwood is
designing a direct sampling super HF transceiver. This rumor
comes from a good source who indicates that the radio was
being developed for the Japanese services. This came about
because of Kenwoods links with JRC who have essentially
closed down their HF radio manufacturing division.
The second rumour is that Kenwood is also designing a K3
like radio. This makes good sense because this is what
market wants. The last thing we need is a another 70mhz IF
radio with below average performance.
All of these long debates we have been having about receiver
and transmitter performance is only going to result in better
products for us all. The only losers in this debate are the
manufacturers who cant deliver performance. Those who insist
on charge ridiculous prices for sub-standard products that
dont meet the needs of the market will suffer. You can only
rely on a color screen, a big box and 20,000 knobs for so
long before the customers wake up and realize its just hot
air and will ask for better performance.
We know that the better performance cant be delivered with
the up conversion architecture, so dont be surprised if
there is a 9mhz IF radio with a huge color screen some time
soon! If Elecraft wants to keep its market share it cant just
rest on its receiver laurels either.
John
From: lstavenhagen <lstavenhagen at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 5:37 PM
Heck they're still trying to catch up to the K2.... and
Icom and Yeasu too.
And I dont think any of them yet make a rig with the
performance of the K3
at all...
LS
W5QD, K2 #6880
--
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Competition-tp4571345p4572492.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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David Y.
2010-02-15 12:31:01 UTC
Permalink
For several reasons I hope it's true, and not just "hamfest hype". I'm not
looking for a replacement for my K3 or anything, but I would like to see
Kenwood get back into the HF mix. They do make some good radios when they
set their minds to it (I like my TS-480 for certain situations). There has
been a lot of speculation about just where Kenwood is heading (some thought
they were going out the door!), and I'm curious to see what this marriage to
Motorola may mean as far as the ham radio division.

As for them making something that really competes with the K3--I suppose
they can come close, but I find it hard to imagine that they will nurture
it, improve it, and provide anywhere close to the level of customer support
that Elecraft does.

I also saw a post (a couple of them actually) that said Ten-Tec was coming
out with some software upgrades very soon for the Orions. This was more
Orlando talk from their sales people. We've heard that many times before
from Ten-Tec. They seem to routinely make these kinds of statements at
Dayton and other places, then they get lockjaw immediately afterwards.
Maybe it's true, but they have "cried wolf" so often, I'm hesitant to
believe it until I see it.

I have to bypass Dayton for the first time in several years--it directly
conflicts with my daughter's graduation from Gonzaga Law School--she's in
her mid 30's, so we've been waiting for this for a long time, and I'm very
proud of her for sticking to her goals, as it wasn't easy! Anyway, I'll be
watching the chatter over the internet from Dayton in May. A lot of rumors
are starting to fly, but I wouldn't bet any large sums of money on very many
of them, if any.

Dave W7AQK


----- Original Message -----
From: "S Sacco" <nn4x.steve at gmail.com>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <Elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:45 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
Post by S Sacco
While at the Orlando Hamcation, I stopped by the Kenwood booth.
The sales dude mentioned that Kenwood would be introducing something
in the "K3 class, as far as performance, but better".
I thought that was wonderful compliment for Elecraft, that they
specifically singled out the K3 as the benchmark.
Who knows if it'll be better, or not. Radios are so much about the
software anymore, that without outstanding software controlling every
aspect of the radio, the hardware, no matter how good, just won't be
able to make up the difference. Personally, I'd put my money on
Elecraft.
He also mentioned that they'd have a "big radio" (presumably
positioned against the FT-9000 / IC-7800) "sometime" in 2011.
Anyway I thought I'd pass that along, FYI as they say.
73,
Steve
NN4X
EL98jh
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Bruce McLaughlin
2010-02-15 18:13:43 UTC
Permalink
" I'm curious to see what this marriage to Motorola may mean as far as the
ham radio division." Hmmm . . . and I thought that marriage was with Yaesu.
I bet Kenwood would be surprised to hear of this.

Bruce - W8FU

-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Y.
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:31 AM
To: S Sacco; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition

For several reasons I hope it's true, and not just "hamfest hype". I'm not
looking for a replacement for my K3 or anything, but I would like to see
Kenwood get back into the HF mix. They do make some good radios when they
set their minds to it (I like my TS-480 for certain situations). There has
been a lot of speculation about just where Kenwood is heading (some thought
they were going out the door!), and I'm curious to see what this marriage to

Motorola may mean as far as the ham radio division.

As for them making something that really competes with the K3--I suppose
they can come close, but I find it hard to imagine that they will nurture
it, improve it, and provide anywhere close to the level of customer support
that Elecraft does.

I also saw a post (a couple of them actually) that said Ten-Tec was coming
out with some software upgrades very soon for the Orions. This was more
Orlando talk from their sales people. We've heard that many times before
from Ten-Tec. They seem to routinely make these kinds of statements at
Dayton and other places, then they get lockjaw immediately afterwards.
Maybe it's true, but they have "cried wolf" so often, I'm hesitant to
believe it until I see it.

I have to bypass Dayton for the first time in several years--it directly
conflicts with my daughter's graduation from Gonzaga Law School--she's in
her mid 30's, so we've been waiting for this for a long time, and I'm very
proud of her for sticking to her goals, as it wasn't easy! Anyway, I'll be
watching the chatter over the internet from Dayton in May. A lot of rumors
are starting to fly, but I wouldn't bet any large sums of money on very many

of them, if any.

Dave W7AQK


----- Original Message -----
From: "S Sacco" <nn4x.steve at gmail.com>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <Elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:45 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
Post by S Sacco
While at the Orlando Hamcation, I stopped by the Kenwood booth.
The sales dude mentioned that Kenwood would be introducing something
in the "K3 class, as far as performance, but better".
I thought that was wonderful compliment for Elecraft, that they
specifically singled out the K3 as the benchmark.
Who knows if it'll be better, or not. Radios are so much about the
software anymore, that without outstanding software controlling every
aspect of the radio, the hardware, no matter how good, just won't be
able to make up the difference. Personally, I'd put my money on
Elecraft.
He also mentioned that they'd have a "big radio" (presumably
positioned against the FT-9000 / IC-7800) "sometime" in 2011.
Anyway I thought I'd pass that along, FYI as they say.
73,
Steve
NN4X
EL98jh
______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft at mailman.qth.net
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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Fumiaki Okushi
2010-02-15 18:37:09 UTC
Permalink
From: "Bruce McLaughlin" <bmclaugh at bex.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:13:43 -0500
Post by Bruce McLaughlin
" I'm curious to see what this marriage to Motorola may mean as far as the
ham radio division." Hmmm . . . and I thought that marriage was with Yaesu.
I bet Kenwood would be surprised to hear of this.
Bruce - W8FU
Yes, Yaesu was bought by Motorola in 2008
(according to company web page http://www.vxstd.com/jp/profile.html

Kenwood is part of the JVC-Kenwood group (if I may call it so..)

Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
David Y.
2010-02-16 01:32:56 UTC
Permalink
I think you are right! I misspoke! It does get confusing.

Dave W7AQK


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce McLaughlin" <bmclaugh at bex.net>
To: "'David Y.'" <w7aqk at cox.net>; "'S Sacco'" <nn4x.steve at gmail.com>;
"'Elecraft Reflector'" <Elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
Post by Bruce McLaughlin
" I'm curious to see what this marriage to Motorola may mean as far as the
ham radio division." Hmmm . . . and I thought that marriage was with Yaesu.
I bet Kenwood would be surprised to hear of this.
Bruce - W8FU
-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Y.
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:31 AM
To: S Sacco; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
For several reasons I hope it's true, and not just "hamfest hype". I'm not
looking for a replacement for my K3 or anything, but I would like to see
Kenwood get back into the HF mix. They do make some good radios when they
set their minds to it (I like my TS-480 for certain situations). There has
been a lot of speculation about just where Kenwood is heading (some thought
they were going out the door!), and I'm curious to see what this marriage to
Motorola may mean as far as the ham radio division.
As for them making something that really competes with the K3--I suppose
they can come close, but I find it hard to imagine that they will nurture
it, improve it, and provide anywhere close to the level of customer support
that Elecraft does.
I also saw a post (a couple of them actually) that said Ten-Tec was coming
out with some software upgrades very soon for the Orions. This was more
Orlando talk from their sales people. We've heard that many times before
from Ten-Tec. They seem to routinely make these kinds of statements at
Dayton and other places, then they get lockjaw immediately afterwards.
Maybe it's true, but they have "cried wolf" so often, I'm hesitant to
believe it until I see it.
I have to bypass Dayton for the first time in several years--it directly
conflicts with my daughter's graduation from Gonzaga Law School--she's in
her mid 30's, so we've been waiting for this for a long time, and I'm very
proud of her for sticking to her goals, as it wasn't easy! Anyway, I'll be
watching the chatter over the internet from Dayton in May. A lot of rumors
are starting to fly, but I wouldn't bet any large sums of money on very many
of them, if any.
Dave W7AQK
----- Original Message -----
From: "S Sacco" <nn4x.steve at gmail.com>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <Elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:45 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 & Competition
Post by S Sacco
While at the Orlando Hamcation, I stopped by the Kenwood booth.
The sales dude mentioned that Kenwood would be introducing something
in the "K3 class, as far as performance, but better".
I thought that was wonderful compliment for Elecraft, that they
specifically singled out the K3 as the benchmark.
Who knows if it'll be better, or not. Radios are so much about the
software anymore, that without outstanding software controlling every
aspect of the radio, the hardware, no matter how good, just won't be
able to make up the difference. Personally, I'd put my money on
Elecraft.
He also mentioned that they'd have a "big radio" (presumably
positioned against the FT-9000 / IC-7800) "sometime" in 2011.
Anyway I thought I'd pass that along, FYI as they say.
73,
Steve
NN4X
EL98jh
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft at mailman.qth.net
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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Wes Stewart
2010-02-15 17:19:31 UTC
Permalink
--- On Sun, 2/14/10, juergen <plebian99 at yahoo.com> wrote:

I would not be so dismissive of the competition. The emotional value of the Kenwood name in ham radio is well known. The Kenwood name is still hugely popular. Who does not comment about "kenwood audio quality"

You joke about? catching up with the K2. The Kenwood TS830s is a 30 year old radio that has? performance thats better? than? the K2 in many areas. It is the case of the K2 catching up with the 30 year old TS830S!

I would suggest that if Kenwood released a updated version of the TS950SDX or Kenwood TS870S? model radios? it would be a top seller.? This would be
especially so if the performance matched the K3.? Just try buying any one of these models in good condition, good luck!

The TS870S was radio that was many years ahead of its time. It introduced concepts that? we take for granted today. Many of these concepts that we take for granted were???pioneered by Kenwood in the TS870S.

I know that top posting is the norm, but it makes more sense to add here:

If Kenwood simply put in a cleaner synthesizer, some stronger mixers and
FET finals they could sell me another TS-870SAT in a heartbeat. As long
as they don't price it out of range by cluttering it up with two
receivers, a spectrum display and the like.

I've had mine for 12
years, it's been flawless, the audio is great with a superior speech processor, the built-in AccuKeyer is the best,? the opposite sideband rejection beats the K3, it is solid, free of
birdies, has enough knobs and buttons that I'm not turning on the VOX
when I meant to change bands, etc. The memory functions are superior to the K3

In fairness, compared to the K3 the noise blanker is a joke and the noise rejection isn't as good, nor is QSK (something I don't use anyway).? But absent very close in QRM, there isn't a signal that can't be heard as well on the '870 as the K3.? I've never gotten a bad audio report with the '870 either. In addition to the synthesizer noise (it is 15 year old technology and up-conversion) the post roofing filter mixers are a weak link, but so IMHO is the one in the K3. Data modes are a friendlier plus with the K3, but the '870 has line level in/out and direct FSK.? There is a true RS-232 without any complicated level converters and if your logging program doesn't have K3 commands, tell it you have a Kenwood.

I had planned to sell the '870 to offset some of the cost of the K3, but after a year, I've decided it ain't going to happen.? Maybe I'll trade it in on a Kenwood TS-870 Pro V Mark II-A.

But I really suspect that any new radio from Kenwood (or the Elecraft K4) will be direct-sampling, hopefully with a real radio interface, i.e, knobs.
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