Discussion:
[Elecraft] K3 front panel assembly
DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
2007-09-05 12:00:36 UTC
Permalink
One again, it pays to search the archives...

http://marc.info/?l=elecraft&m=117774253022323&w=2

I would say that since "knobs" are mentioned as part of the modular
"assembly," that the front panel is just the front panel; we do the
"attaching, mounting, etc." Just a guess (educated guess?).

de Doug KR2Q
Tom Hammond
2007-09-05 12:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Folks:

In Field Testing the (hopefully) soon-to-be-released K3 Assembly Manual
(I had to COMPLETELY disassemble my FT K3 and reassemble it from the manual),
I recall that the Front Panel (Cover) is received separately from the Front
Panel PC board ASSEMBLY.

So yes... you WILL have to assemble the Front Panel PC board assembly TO the
Front Panel (cover)... including installation of all the knobs, etc.

73,

Tom Hammond N0SS
Post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
One again, it pays to search the archives...
http://marc.info/?l=elecraft&m=117774253022323&w=2
I would say that since "knobs" are mentioned as part of the modular
"assembly," that the front panel is just the front panel; we do the
"attaching, mounting, etc." Just a guess (educated guess?).
de Doug KR2Q
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Don Rasmussen
2007-09-05 15:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Tom, Do you know if the same guy that winds the kit
toroids will offer a service to mount the K3 knobs to
the FrontPanel PC board ASSEMBLY? ;-)

[Elecraft] K3 front panel assembly
Tom Hammond n0ss at embarqmail.com
Wed Sep 5 07:28:50 EDT 2007

Folks:

In Field Testing the (hopefully) soon-to-be-released
K3 Assembly Manual (I had to COMPLETELY disassemble my
FT K3 and reassemble it from the manual), I recall
that the Front Panel (Cover) is received separately
from the FrontPanel PC board ASSEMBLY.

So yes... you WILL have to assemble the Front Panel PC
board assembly TO the Front Panel (cover)... including
installation of all the knobs, etc.

73,
Tom Hammond N0SS
Franki ON5ZO
2007-09-05 15:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Rasmussen
Do you know if the same guy that winds the kit
toroids will offer a service to mount the K3 knobs to
the FrontPanel PC board ASSEMBLY? ;-)
Speaking of toroids, I assume the K3 modules will come with coils wound and
soldered?
I like soldering but I hate winding toroids... to put it mildly.

73 de Franki ON5ZO
Tom Hammond
2007-09-05 16:32:57 UTC
Permalink
ALL K3 modules will be FULLY ASSEMBLED, TESTED, and (I'm pretty
certain) pre-aligned!

Tom
Post by Franki ON5ZO
Post by Don Rasmussen
Do you know if the same guy that winds the kit
toroids will offer a service to mount the K3 knobs to
the FrontPanel PC board ASSEMBLY? ;-)
Speaking of toroids, I assume the K3 modules will come with coils
wound and soldered?
I like soldering but I hate winding toroids... to put it mildly.
73 de Franki ON5ZO
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-05 18:23:50 UTC
Permalink
If there was a kit option to wind your own toroids I'd have gone for
it! There isn't much skill involved in stuffing boards with parts and
soldering them. Winding toroids is one area of kit building that
demands a bit of craftsmanship. I really can't understand why people
who like building so dislike that part of it.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by Franki ON5ZO
Speaking of toroids, I assume the K3 modules will come with coils wound and
soldered?
I like soldering but I hate winding toroids... to put it mildly.
Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
2007-09-05 18:29:29 UTC
Permalink
In my case it's eyesight and colour blindness.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
Post by Julian G4ILO
If there was a kit option to wind your own toroids I'd have gone for
it! There isn't much skill involved in stuffing boards with parts and
soldering them. Winding toroids is one area of kit building that
demands a bit of craftsmanship. I really can't understand why people
who like building so dislike that part of it.
wayne burdick
2007-09-05 16:36:47 UTC
Permalink
Front panel assembly is easy and well-documented.

Wayne
N6KR
Post by Don Rasmussen
Tom, Do you know if the same guy that winds the kit
toroids will offer a service to mount the K3 knobs to
the FrontPanel PC board ASSEMBLY? ;-)
---

http://www.elecraft.com
David Ferrington, M0XDF
2007-09-05 16:10:48 UTC
Permalink
From pictures and comments here, the boards come completely assembled and
tested - the must be fitted if they are tested.
Post by Don Rasmussen
Do you know if the same guy that winds the kit
toroids will offer a service to mount the K3 knobs to
the FrontPanel PC board ASSEMBLY? ;-)
Speaking of toroids, I assume the K3 modules will come with coils wound and
soldered?
I like soldering but I hate winding toroids... to put it mildly.
73 de Franki ON5ZO
--
God gives every bird his worm, but he does not throw it into the nest.
-Swedish proverb
Ron D'Eau Claire
2007-09-05 16:18:53 UTC
Permalink
That's right Tom. The front panel board comes separate from the panel
itself, but all the pushbutton switches are pre-installed on the board. It's
a matter of putting the right spacers in place, then mounting the board on
the front panel and adding the knobs. The nice VFO A bezel and LCD display
cover attach to the front with 2-56 screws.

The two encoders (VFO A and VFO B) are separate little modules that plug
into the front panel board and are held in place on the front panel by nuts
on their threaded bushings.

Finally, the DSP board mounts "piggyback" on the front panel board and the
whole front panel assembly is ready to plug into the main chassis assembly.

Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
Folks:

In Field Testing the (hopefully) soon-to-be-released K3 Assembly Manual (I
had to COMPLETELY disassemble my FT K3 and reassemble it from the manual), I
recall that the Front Panel (Cover) is received separately from the Front
Panel PC board ASSEMBLY.

So yes... you WILL have to assemble the Front Panel PC board assembly TO the
Front Panel (cover)... including installation of all the knobs, etc.

73,

Tom Hammond N0SS
David Ferrington, M0XDF
2007-09-05 16:37:08 UTC
Permalink
I seem to remember Wayne or Eric saying they would be pre-aligned in a
previous post.
K3 and counting .....
Post by Tom Hammond
ALL K3 modules will be FULLY ASSEMBLED, TESTED, and (I'm pretty
certain) pre-aligned!
--
When work is a pleasure, life is a joy! When work is a duty, life is
slavery. -Maxim Gorky, author (1868-1936)
Fred (FL)
2007-09-05 16:42:03 UTC
Permalink
I've gotten used to the "pretested" "pre-created PCB"
and samo samo set of K3 parts and components and
PCB's and ............. in the K3 kit version.

I learned long time ago there are no dumb questions,
only poor souls who won't ask them.

I was hoping the front panel, and "control pcb
and display board" if there is one - are pre-made
and like all the other K3 boards, tested and
checked out to some Elecraft K3 standard. As much
as we all like the smell of solder - seems to me,
the majority of problems with the K2 has always
been dumb or inept construction soldering and
component mistakes. So if I have to pay bigger bucks
for a better transceiver, and still not get 2m or
440 - I'd much rather get as much pre-tested
stuff, as the Elecraft principles think we
can handle. I want to end up with samo
and samo - as the "finishied K3" guys and
gals.

My dad, W2PZW from the spark 20's days, was
color blind. He couldn't get an early days
electronics job with the NBC radio companies
of those days because of his visual problem.
But I suspect he could have bought the K3 kit, and
ended up with a fully functional transceiver.

I'm not sure how dense the K3 is, it doesn't
appear too daunting - but if Icom had decided
to have hams build the IC-7000 from parts
as a solder-kit, I can imagine the success
and failure stories.

......chomping, chomping
de, Fred N3CSY
waters of the St. Lawrence
5 Sept



____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Tom Hammond
2007-09-05 19:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred (FL)
I've gotten used to the "pretested" "pre-created PCB"
and samo samo set of K3 parts and components and
PCB's and ............. in the K3 kit version.
I learned long time ago there are no dumb questions,
only poor souls who won't ask them.
I was hoping the front panel, and "control pcb
and display board" if there is one - are pre-made
and like all the other K3 boards, tested and
checked out to some Elecraft K3 standard.
And they ARE, Fred...

Maybe I wasn't specific enough... ALL (emphasis added here)
PC boards (including the Front Panel PC board) WILL be FULLY
ASSEMBLED and TESTED and PRE-ALIGNED...!!

Eric just wrote me with...

"The customer will have to do final alignment of the BPFs in
TX (like the K2), and will have to run the other alignment
routines like the VCO MD CAL *similar to CAL PLL in the K2)
routine. We'll do quick alignment in order to test everything,
but will not do a final, 'fine tuned' alignment."

The customer will also build their APP power cable. (So they
get to do -some- soldering!) - <G>

You, as the assembler, if you buy the kit, WILL have to install
the Front Panel PC board onto the metalwork named Front Panel Cover,
but there is NO soldering required.
Post by Fred (FL)
As much
as we all like the smell of solder - seems to me,
the majority of problems with the K2 has always
been dumb or inept construction soldering and
component mistakes. So if I have to pay bigger bucks
for a better transceiver, and still not get 2m or
440 - I'd much rather get as much pre-tested
stuff, as the Elecraft principles think we
can handle. I want to end up with samo
and samo - as the "finishied K3" guys and
gals.
And there's NO REASON you shouldn't do just that,
with just a few hours of 'sweat equity' involved.
Post by Fred (FL)
My dad, W2PZW from the spark 20's days, was
color blind. He couldn't get an early days
electronics job with the NBC radio companies
of those days because of his visual problem.
But I suspect he could have bought the K3 kit, and
ended up with a fully functional transceiver.
I'm not sure how dense the K3 is, it doesn't
appear too daunting - but if Icom had decided
to have hams build the IC-7000 from parts
as a solder-kit, I can imagine the success
and failure stories.
73,

Tom N0SS
Charles Harpole
2007-09-05 16:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Much as I want to like the little company that could, Elecraft folks need to
recognize that despite their existing rabidly pro customer base, they are
now reaching another type of customer with the advanced K3. This new
customer will be much less forgiving than the folks of the QRP and toy rigs
niche who are clearly predisposed to love anything Elecraft.

Me, I am a new type customer, not interested in QRP (I'm too old), back
packing (same), and tiny rigs (same agn). I assemble to save money, not
much for the fun. I like operating, not tinkering. I purchase based on
outstanding specs, not other marketing ploys.

Message then to Elecraft, provided free here altho a marketing consultant
would cost plenty, is to wake up to their new added customer base and
understand that forgiveness in
timely notices of shipment
advance manual availability
clear specs on rig (that are stated in the same terms as good ole Sherwood
and that do not have the > or the < mark)
and clear info on the full range of products, such as the Heil K2
mic/headphones,
can be expected to be met with only a polite patience that can be exhausted
soon.

It is a new and exciting ...and challenging.... day for Elecraft. They have
entered the big leagues and clearly challenge ICOM and Yaesu (and ORION).
Marketing info will need to measure up too.

PS... keep my order for a K3 active, please..... 73

Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW
***@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Test your celebrity IQ.  Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes!
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-05 18:33:44 UTC
Permalink
As soon as I realised the K3 was going to be available built, I
foresaw that it would attract the kind of consumer whose attitude is
"I am a customer, I demand satisfaction." That's progress, I guess.

The one bit of your message I couldn't make sense of is that you claim
to be too old for QRP. As someone who wrote "QRP: Less power, more
fun" (http://www.g4ilo.com/qrp.html) it might surprise you to know
that I can understand why some people might not be interested in QRP,
but being too old for it is a new one on me!
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by Charles Harpole
Much as I want to like the little company that could, Elecraft folks need to
recognize that despite their existing rabidly pro customer base, they are
now reaching another type of customer with the advanced K3. This new
customer will be much less forgiving than the folks of the QRP and toy rigs
niche who are clearly predisposed to love anything Elecraft.
Me, I am a new type customer, not interested in QRP (I'm too old), back
packing (same), and tiny rigs (same agn). I assemble to save money, not
much for the fun. I like operating, not tinkering. I purchase based on
outstanding specs, not other marketing ploys.
Thom LaCosta
2007-09-05 18:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian G4ILO
As soon as I realised the K3 was going to be available built, I
foresaw that it would attract the kind of consumer whose attitude is
"I am a customer, I demand satisfaction." That's progress, I guess.
Hmmmmm, guess the word progress has a different meaning on your side of the
pond.
Post by Julian G4ILO
Post by Charles Harpole
Me, I am a new type customer, not interested in QRP (I'm too old), back
packing (same), and tiny rigs (same agn). I assemble to save money, not
much for the fun. I like operating, not tinkering. I purchase based on
outstanding specs, not other marketing ploys.
I thought statements like marketing ploys and blowing his own horn as a
marketing consultant was much more telling than saying he was too old for QRP.

73 k3hrn
Thom,EIEIO
Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer and appliance operator

www.baltimorehon.com/ Home of the Baltimore Lexicon
www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month
Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
2007-09-06 04:57:34 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
Post by Julian G4ILO
The one bit of your message I couldn't make sense of is that you claim
to be too old for QRP. As someone who wrote "QRP: Less power, more
fun" (http://www.g4ilo.com/qrp.html) it might surprise you to know
that I can understand why some people might not be interested in QRP,
but being too old for it is a new one on me!
With age comes wisdom, with wisdom the skill to use QRP.

Just wait until you see the Elecraft 1500w power amp - I bet you'll have
your order sent off within 48 hours.

Simon HB9DRV
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-06 08:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Living in a densely populated area like I do and with indoor antennas
- no chance!

If my 10 watts can't make a particular contact then it's no big deal
to me. It's only a hobby, a pastime, not life or death communications,
not worth causing interference to the neighbours. I don't understand
why people have to get so competitive about radio. The ordinary
business of making a living in the real world is competitive enough
for me. Getting my web pages on to the first page of Google search
results is a more worthwhile challenge than trying to work a bunch of
guys perched on a piece of rock in the Pacific Ocean. What I want from
a hobby is relaxation.

The thrill I get from making contacts with low power more than makes
up for the ones I don't make, many of which 100W might not have made
either.

I envy those who can put up towers and beams and run high power, but
it's just like I envy those who run luxury cars, or own a yacht or a
villa in the south of France. It would be nice to have those things,
but I don't need them, and don't imagine I will ever be able to afford
them, so I don't lose any sleep over not having them.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
Just wait until you see the Elecraft 1500w power amp - I bet you'll have
your order sent off within 48 hours.
Brett gazdzinski
2007-09-06 16:28:16 UTC
Permalink
That is one of the great things about our hobby, there is
surely something for everyone.

As long as others don't object about someone else's
favorite thing, its great.

I don't get into contests, but I don't mind the guys that do
taking over the bands from time to time.

I hope they don't mind me getting on AM once and a while
on uncrowded bands, using my home brew tube stations.

Sure is a lot to do on ham radio though, all the modes,
all the frequencies, computer stuff, satellite, fm repeater,
cw, home brew, vintage, contests, dx, rag chewing, nets, qrp,
kit building, really, what other hobby has so much...

Brett
N2DTS
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:52 AM
To: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Optimized mic ?
Living in a densely populated area like I do and with indoor antennas
- no chance!
If my 10 watts can't make a particular contact then it's no big deal
to me. It's only a hobby, a pastime, not life or death communications,
not worth causing interference to the neighbours. I don't understand
why people have to get so competitive about radio. The ordinary
business of making a living in the real world is competitive enough
for me. Getting my web pages on to the first page of Google search
results is a more worthwhile challenge than trying to work a bunch of
guys perched on a piece of rock in the Pacific Ocean. What I want from
a hobby is relaxation.
The thrill I get from making contacts with low power more than makes
up for the ones I don't make, many of which 100W might not have made
either.
I envy those who can put up towers and beams and run high power, but
it's just like I envy those who run luxury cars, or own a yacht or a
villa in the south of France. It would be nice to have those things,
but I don't need them, and don't imagine I will ever be able to afford
them, so I don't lose any sleep over not having them.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
Just wait until you see the Elecraft 1500w power amp - I
bet you'll have
Post by Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
your order sent off within 48 hours.
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Brett gazdzinski
2007-09-06 14:47:21 UTC
Permalink
I do wonder what Elecraft could come up with if
size, weight, and power consumption were not an issue.
It would likely be a rig I would really like, as there
are plenty of small rigs out there.

They don?t need to go head to head with the major manufacturers
if they don?t want to, they can sell what they sell and how they
want to sell it, and be as big or as little as they want.

My guess is they want to sell zillions of K3's though, with all
the jetting around to hamfests.

If the K4 was twice the size of the K3, and had four times
the knobs and buttons on it, and had the K3 performance, I bet they
would sell even more of them then K3's, at a higher price.

I don?t see why Elecraft could not get very large in short order,
as no one has the range and performance they do, kits, small rigs,
top end performing rigs, medium size rigs, backpack rigs, antenna tuners,
amplifiers, and with the K4, big deluxe rigs.

I hope they will expand and bring out more products faster, while
reducing the individual workload so they don?t burn out.




Brett
N2DTS
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Optimized mic ?
Much as I want to like the little company that could,
Elecraft folks need to
recognize that despite their existing rabidly pro customer
base, they are
now reaching another type of customer with the advanced K3. This new
customer will be much less forgiving than the folks of the
QRP and toy rigs
niche who are clearly predisposed to love anything Elecraft.
Me, I am a new type customer, not interested in QRP (I'm too
old), back
packing (same), and tiny rigs (same agn). I assemble to save
money, not
much for the fun. I like operating, not tinkering. I
purchase based on
outstanding specs, not other marketing ploys.
Message then to Elecraft, provided free here altho a
marketing consultant
would cost plenty, is to wake up to their new added customer base and
understand that forgiveness in
timely notices of shipment
advance manual availability
clear specs on rig (that are stated in the same terms as good
ole Sherwood
and that do not have the > or the < mark)
and clear info on the full range of products, such as the Heil K2
mic/headphones,
can be expected to be met with only a polite patience that
can be exhausted
soon.
It is a new and exciting ...and challenging.... day for
Elecraft. They have
entered the big leagues and clearly challenge ICOM and Yaesu
(and ORION).
Marketing info will need to measure up too.
PS... keep my order for a K3 active, please..... 73
Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW
_________________________________________________________________
Test your celebrity IQ.? Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn
great prizes!
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hot
mailtextlink2
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Matt Palmer
2007-09-06 14:50:48 UTC
Permalink
I would rather see them expanding into a surface mount miniaturized
version of the k2 with improved performance for a k4.

Matt KD8DAO
Post by Brett gazdzinski
I do wonder what Elecraft could come up with if
size, weight, and power consumption were not an issue.
It would likely be a rig I would really like, as there
are plenty of small rigs out there.
They don't need to go head to head with the major manufacturers
if they don't want to, they can sell what they sell and how they
want to sell it, and be as big or as little as they want.
My guess is they want to sell zillions of K3's though, with all
the jetting around to hamfests.
If the K4 was twice the size of the K3, and had four times
the knobs and buttons on it, and had the K3 performance, I bet they
would sell even more of them then K3's, at a higher price.
I don't see why Elecraft could not get very large in short order,
as no one has the range and performance they do, kits, small rigs,
top end performing rigs, medium size rigs, backpack rigs, antenna tuners,
amplifiers, and with the K4, big deluxe rigs.
I hope they will expand and bring out more products faster, while
reducing the individual workload so they don't burn out.
Brett
N2DTS
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Optimized mic ?
Much as I want to like the little company that could,
Elecraft folks need to
recognize that despite their existing rabidly pro customer
base, they are
now reaching another type of customer with the advanced K3. This new
customer will be much less forgiving than the folks of the
QRP and toy rigs
niche who are clearly predisposed to love anything Elecraft.
Me, I am a new type customer, not interested in QRP (I'm too
old), back
packing (same), and tiny rigs (same agn). I assemble to save money, not
much for the fun. I like operating, not tinkering. I
purchase based on
outstanding specs, not other marketing ploys.
Message then to Elecraft, provided free here altho a
marketing consultant
would cost plenty, is to wake up to their new added customer base and
understand that forgiveness in
timely notices of shipment
advance manual availability
clear specs on rig (that are stated in the same terms as good ole Sherwood
and that do not have the > or the < mark)
and clear info on the full range of products, such as the Heil K2
mic/headphones,
can be expected to be met with only a polite patience that
can be exhausted
soon.
It is a new and exciting ...and challenging.... day for
Elecraft. They have
entered the big leagues and clearly challenge ICOM and Yaesu
(and ORION).
Marketing info will need to measure up too.
PS... keep my order for a K3 active, please..... 73
Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW
_________________________________________________________________
Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn
great prizes!
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hot
mailtextlink2
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-06 15:27:03 UTC
Permalink
If the end result of that would be a battery powered radio the size of
an FT-817 or smaller, with K2 + KAT2 functionality then it would be a
must-buy. The FT-817 has been very popular but technically it is a
huge disappointment, with a poor receiver, far too high power
consumption for its battery size and no built in ATU which is really
needed in the field. By the time you have added an external battery
and an ATU, you may as well take a K2. The only trouble is FT-817s are
now very cheap (about a third the price I paid for my first one!) and
any Elecraft competitor would probably be perceived as expensive by
most potential buyers.

I personally don't have the space for the four times larger K3
proposed by Brett, but as there seems to be quite a lot of space
inside the K3 already I don't really see the point in any case. If it
is a question of operating ergonomics, perhaps the answer is a
software front panel, e.g. HRD.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by Matt Palmer
I would rather see them expanding into a surface mount miniaturized
version of the k2 with improved performance for a k4.
Brett gazdzinski
2007-09-06 16:00:04 UTC
Permalink
I said twice the size, with 4 times the knobs/buttons.
Four times would be HUGE!

Brett
Post by Julian G4ILO
I personally don't have the space for the four times larger K3
proposed by Brett, but as there seems to be quite a lot of space
inside the K3 already I don't really see the point in any case. If it
is a question of operating ergonomics, perhaps the answer is a
software front panel, e.g. HRD.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by Matt Palmer
I would rather see them expanding into a surface mount miniaturized
version of the k2 with improved performance for a k4.
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Brett gazdzinski
2007-09-06 15:58:43 UTC
Permalink
So you want a revised K1, not a K4.
K3 performance in a K1 size box using surface mount.

That seems like a nitch radio, not a mainstream radio.

You need:

Backpack rig and/or handheld,
Small portable or field day rig,
Mobile rig (portable and field day also) designed with the car in mind..,
Base rig,
Deluxe base rig,
Computer rig,
Amplifier,
Remote (auto?) antenna tuners/antenna switch,
Kits and various power level versions of the above.

I don't know about vhf and uhf rigs...

The reason I would like a rig twice the size of the K3 is to get
a band scope and individual knobs for main features.
While Elecraft does wonders with limited controls, there is no
need for that on a big radio.
I think they would sell many more bigger rigs to the general ham
population then they would sell revised K1's.

Brett
N2DTS
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Optimized mic ?
I would rather see them expanding into a surface mount miniaturized
version of the k2 with improved performance for a k4.
Matt KD8DAO
On 9/6/07, Brett gazdzinski
Post by Brett gazdzinski
I do wonder what Elecraft could come up with if
size, weight, and power consumption were not an issue.
It would likely be a rig I would really like, as there
are plenty of small rigs out there.
They don't need to go head to head with the major manufacturers
if they don't want to, they can sell what they sell and how they
want to sell it, and be as big or as little as they want.
My guess is they want to sell zillions of K3's though, with all
the jetting around to hamfests.
If the K4 was twice the size of the K3, and had four times
the knobs and buttons on it, and had the K3 performance, I bet they
would sell even more of them then K3's, at a higher price.
I don't see why Elecraft could not get very large in short order,
as no one has the range and performance they do, kits, small rigs,
top end performing rigs, medium size rigs, backpack rigs,
antenna tuners,
Post by Brett gazdzinski
amplifiers, and with the K4, big deluxe rigs.
I hope they will expand and bring out more products faster, while
reducing the individual workload so they don't burn out.
Brett
N2DTS
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
-----Original Message-----
Charles Harpole
Post by Brett gazdzinski
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Optimized mic ?
Much as I want to like the little company that could,
Elecraft folks need to
recognize that despite their existing rabidly pro customer
base, they are
now reaching another type of customer with the advanced
K3. This new
Post by Brett gazdzinski
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
customer will be much less forgiving than the folks of the
QRP and toy rigs
niche who are clearly predisposed to love anything Elecraft.
Me, I am a new type customer, not interested in QRP (I'm too old), back
packing (same), and tiny rigs (same agn). I assemble to save money, not
much for the fun. I like operating, not tinkering. I
purchase based on
outstanding specs, not other marketing ploys.
Message then to Elecraft, provided free here altho a
marketing consultant
would cost plenty, is to wake up to their new added
customer base and
Post by Brett gazdzinski
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
understand that forgiveness in
timely notices of shipment
advance manual availability
clear specs on rig (that are stated in the same terms as good ole Sherwood
and that do not have the > or the < mark)
and clear info on the full range of products, such as the Heil K2
mic/headphones,
can be expected to be met with only a polite patience that
can be exhausted
soon.
It is a new and exciting ...and challenging.... day for
Elecraft. They have
entered the big leagues and clearly challenge ICOM and Yaesu (and ORION).
Marketing info will need to measure up too.
PS... keep my order for a K3 active, please..... 73
Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW
_________________________________________________________________
Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn
great prizes!
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hot
mailtextlink2
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-06 16:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brett gazdzinski
I think they would sell many more bigger rigs to the general ham
population then they would sell revised K1's.
On what evidence do you base this assertion? I haven't done a survey,
but on the basis of the rigs people say they are using when I contact
them, I would say the small / medium size radios are in the majority.
A lot of people are even using mobile rigs (IC-706, IC-7000, FT-897
etc.) as their main radios. That may be more to do with pricing than
size, of course.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
JT Croteau
2007-09-06 17:09:09 UTC
Permalink
People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
big screen TV's). Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.
--
JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH
Brett gazdzinski
2007-09-06 19:31:25 UTC
Permalink
I don't know if people want it smaller, or they push
smaller stuff to the people, or if it's a young thing, or what.
I do NOT want things smaller, my cell phone/camera is already so small
its very hard to use, look at aftermarket car radios, the buttons and
displays
are so small you have to stop and put your glasses on to read/change
anything,
handhelds have gotten so small they cant fit enough buttons and have menus
and multi function things that make them almost imposable to use
or figure out.

I got a VX-7r I hate, as you cant use it without the (thick)
instruction book, you cant even hold it without things getting in the way,
and it gets REAL hot.

No thanks, I want things bigger.

Now if I was back packing, I would like it to be small
and light, for the rest of it, I want it big and easy to use.

But maybe I am odd, my transmitters are 6 foot tall....


Brett
N2DTS
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...
People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
big screen TV's). Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.
--
JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Matt Palmer
2007-09-06 22:25:47 UTC
Permalink
I think we need to get with the times, i'm not saying a smaller box
for the k2, but i wouldnt mind seeing a surface mount version, which
would mean more space inside the box for user mods and tinkering, i
think with all the options installed everyone agrees the k2 is a tight
fit. And as much as everyone seems scared of smt, it seems to be the
same fear of toroids, there not that bad, theres nothing hard about
it, no magic spells to cast, it just takes a little practice, so the
sooner we get a kit radio we really really want, that requires us to
do a little surface mounting the sooner the ham community will " get
over itself"


(this is the 20 year year olds perspective though)

Matt
KD8DAO
Post by Brett gazdzinski
I don't know if people want it smaller, or they push
smaller stuff to the people, or if it's a young thing, or what.
I do NOT want things smaller, my cell phone/camera is already so small
its very hard to use, look at aftermarket car radios, the buttons and
displays
are so small you have to stop and put your glasses on to read/change
anything,
handhelds have gotten so small they cant fit enough buttons and have menus
and multi function things that make them almost imposable to use
or figure out.
I got a VX-7r I hate, as you cant use it without the (thick)
instruction book, you cant even hold it without things getting in the way,
and it gets REAL hot.
No thanks, I want things bigger.
Now if I was back packing, I would like it to be small
and light, for the rest of it, I want it big and easy to use.
But maybe I am odd, my transmitters are 6 foot tall....
Brett
N2DTS
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...
People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
big screen TV's). Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.
--
JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Brett gazdzinski
2007-09-06 19:24:37 UTC
Permalink
On the assumption that people wanting little radios
could get or already have a K1, K2, etc.
And from looking at ads in QST and the AES catalog,
the big rigs get the attention, along with anything 'new'.

Sure, there are loads of people who would like an
expensive radio, like me, but I don't have $10,000.00
to plunk down for the really good ones.
I got an icom 756 pro cheap used, while a poor performer
compared to the Elecraft rigs on RX, it was a slick
package with lots of features, knobs, buttons, great displays,
real S meter, auto antenna tuner, 6 meters, in a bigger box.
It even came with a microphone!


It seems to me like there are LOADS of guys that have to have the
latest and greatest, as well as plenty of people who will get
whatever they can for the lowest cost.

I don't think Elecraft could compete with really cheap rigs or
used rigs, but they do real well with the great performing rigs.
From a business standpoint, you want a bigger box and more features
that dazzle, like the multi color band scope, lots of knobs, some gold
trim highlights, and some heft to it.
That is what the usual suspects have been doing, add the Elecraft
high performance and it would sell like hotcakes!

Brett
N2DTS
On 9/6/07, Brett gazdzinski
Post by Brett gazdzinski
I think they would sell many more bigger rigs to the general ham
population then they would sell revised K1's.
On what evidence do you base this assertion? I haven't done a survey,
but on the basis of the rigs people say they are using when I contact
them, I would say the small / medium size radios are in the majority.
A lot of people are even using mobile rigs (IC-706, IC-7000, FT-897
etc.) as their main radios. That may be more to do with pricing than
size, of course.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Don Rasmussen
2007-09-05 18:27:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Rasmussen
Wayne opined: Front panel assembly is easy and
well-documented.

Show me show me!

I only have a rubber mallot and an ice pick, sure hope
that's all that's required. ;-)


CC: "Elecraft" <***@mail>
From: "wayne burdick" <***@ele> Add to
Subject: Re: K3 front panel assembly
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:36:11 -0700

Front panel assembly is easy and well-documented.

Wayne
N6KR
Post by Don Rasmussen
Tom, Do you know if the same guy that winds the kit
toroids will offer a service to mount the K3 knobs
to
Post by Don Rasmussen
the FrontPanel PC board ASSEMBLY? ;-)
---

http://www.elecraft.com
Tom Hammond
2007-09-05 19:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Fred:

NEWS FLASH! Just got ANOTHER e-mail from Eric...

The K3 BPFs WILL be FULLY ALIGNED AND TESTED before they are shipped.

All other 'adjustments' will be performed under software control.

73,

Tom
Post by Fred (FL)
I've gotten used to the "pretested" "pre-created PCB"
and samo samo set of K3 parts and components and
PCB's and ............. in the K3 kit version.
I learned long time ago there are no dumb questions,
only poor souls who won't ask them.
I was hoping the front panel, and "control pcb
and display board" if there is one - are pre-made
and like all the other K3 boards, tested and
checked out to some Elecraft K3 standard.
And they ARE, Fred...

Maybe I wasn't specific enough... ALL (emphasis added here)
PC boards (including the Front Panel PC board) WILL be FULLY
ASSEMBLED and TESTED and PRE-ALIGNED...!!

Eric just wrote me with...

"The customer will have to do final alignment of the BPFs in
TX (like the K2), and will have to run the other alignment
routines like the VCO MD CAL *similar to CAL PLL in the K2)
routine. We'll do quick alignment in order to test everything,
but will not do a final, 'fine tuned' alignment."

The customer will also build their APP power cable. (So they
get to do -some- soldering!) - <G>

You, as the assembler, if you buy the kit, WILL have to install
the Front Panel PC board onto the metalwork named Front Panel Cover,
but there is NO soldering required.
Post by Fred (FL)
As much
as we all like the smell of solder - seems to me,
the majority of problems with the K2 has always
been dumb or inept construction soldering and
component mistakes. So if I have to pay bigger bucks
for a better transceiver, and still not get 2m or
440 - I'd much rather get as much pre-tested
stuff, as the Elecraft principles think we
can handle. I want to end up with samo
and samo - as the "finishied K3" guys and
gals.
And there's NO REASON you shouldn't do just that,
with just a few hours of 'sweat equity' involved.
Post by Fred (FL)
My dad, W2PZW from the spark 20's days, was
color blind. He couldn't get an early days
electronics job with the NBC radio companies
of those days because of his visual problem.
But I suspect he could have bought the K3 kit, and
ended up with a fully functional transceiver.
I'm not sure how dense the K3 is, it doesn't
appear too daunting - but if Icom had decided
to have hams build the IC-7000 from parts
as a solder-kit, I can imagine the success
and failure stories.
73,

Tom N0SS
Toby Deinhardt
2007-09-05 21:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Hammond
The K3 BPFs WILL be FULLY ALIGNED AND TESTED before they are shipped.
Rats! I thought I could do some tinkering after all ... hi hi
N2EY at aol.com ()
2007-09-06 00:24:56 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 9/5/07 11:51:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Post by Charles Harpole
This new
customer will be much less forgiving than the folks of the QRP and toy rigs
niche who are clearly predisposed to love anything Elecraft.
What are "toy rigs"?

73 de Jim, N2EY


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the
all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Thom LaCosta
2007-09-06 04:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
In a message dated 9/5/07 11:51:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Post by Charles Harpole
This new
customer will be much less forgiving than the folks of the QRP and toy rigs
niche who are clearly predisposed to love anything Elecraft.
What are "toy rigs"?
Probably the ones that are in teeny cases, that someone put together and less
than 100 watts.

Oh...and they might also be the ones that are really good cw rigs...since that's
an obsolete mode, it's like shoes with button hooks.

Which reminds me...are the K3 button hooks convex or concave?

73 k3hrn
Thom,EIEIO
Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer

www.baltimorehon.com/ Home of the Baltimore Lexicon
www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month
Charles Harpole
2007-09-06 02:07:40 UTC
Permalink
Well, to age in many folks comes with a loss of patience which comes from
the knowledge that the end is much closer than the beginning.

QRP requires patience and skill beyond what is fun for me. I think I can
understand how it could be fun, but not for me.

Lots of folks who write on the reflector seem sometimes to have forgotten
that ham radio exists, on a personal level, for FUN. I guess some folks'
fun looks like work to me. 73



Charles Harpole
***@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft® Office Live!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0930003811mrt/direct/01/
Bill W5WVO
2007-09-06 02:29:38 UTC
Permalink
I guess some folks' fun looks like work to me.
Yep. :-) And that's what makes life so interesting. If it weren't for this
kind of diversity, what a very boring thing life would be!

Personally, I really understand Charles' point of view, and I think he makes a
good point -- which I'm certain Eric and Wayne thought long and hard about, as
the K3 design model began to evolve toward a top-of-the-market,
competition-grade, non-kit transceiver. For some, this might translate into a
greater level of impatience than for others. (Not for me.) No big deal either
way; it'll be out when it's out. At the end of the day, it's the performance
on the air that will tell the tale. :-)

Bill / W5WVO
Charles Harpole
2007-09-06 02:16:46 UTC
Permalink
Retired now means I have time to send messages like this.... but should I ?

Predictions for future:
1. genetically modified animals will be sold as personal helpers.
2. the super powers will fight over resources in Africa for the next
century.
3. some will realize that democracy does not fit into a society based on
the tribalism of kinship-based governance and ease up trying to push Western
democracy on others.
4. computers that u can easily talk to is the next big break thru in
electronics.

73
Charles Harpole
***@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft® Office Live!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0930003811mrt/direct/01/
W2AGN
2007-09-06 02:24:55 UTC
Permalink
"Charles Harpole" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
(09/05/2007 22:15)
Post by Charles Harpole
Retired now means I have time to send messages like this.... but should I ?
NO!!!

John - W2AGN
Charles Harpole
2007-09-06 02:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Again I say, the K3 will be the IC 706 of the new century.

After the "followers" see what the "opinion leaders" have in the K3,
virtually every active ham will have a K3, or be salavating for one.

I have purchased (and sold some) seven IC-706 and see the rig as a
phenomena.

Charles Harpole
***@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Test your celebrity IQ.  Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes!
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-06 08:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Is that supposed to be a compliment?
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by Charles Harpole
Again I say, the K3 will be the IC 706 of the new century.
Ken Kopp
2007-09-06 15:40:22 UTC
Permalink
Gee, I pray it's -NOT- the IC-706 of the 21st century.

The '706 is an ho-hum radio for the casual operator ... maybe. (;-(

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
***@arrl.net
or
***@acninc.net
Joe-aa4nn
2007-09-06 17:08:42 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, and the IC7000 is hardly any better.
de Joe, aa4nn

Gee, I pray it's -NOT- the IC-706 of the 21st century.
Post by Ken Kopp
The '706 is an ho-hum radio for the casual operator ... maybe. (;-(
73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
Tom Arntzen
2007-09-06 21:54:33 UTC
Permalink
OK Guys!
I think you might missed Charles point.
The 706 is actually a super rig for what it was ment to do.
Running mobile HF or as with mk2g HF/VHF/UHF and portable setup as well.
That some has choosed to make it the primary rig is also understandable
since it has
such small footprintand it is their choice and not to debate.
Likewise the K3 will probably be a super radio in it's divison targeting the
high end market.
So I think Charles point is a good one.

Tom LA1PHA


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Harpole" <***@hotmail.com>
To: <***@cybermesa.net>; <***@gmail.com>;
<***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:35 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] the 706 of 2000+
Post by Charles Harpole
Again I say, the K3 will be the IC 706 of the new century.
After the "followers" see what the "opinion leaders" have in the K3,
virtually every active ham will have a K3, or be salavating for one.
I have purchased (and sold some) seven IC-706 and see the rig as a
phenomena.
Charles Harpole
_________________________________________________________________
Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes!
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
269.13.5/989 - Release Date: 04.09.2007 17:54
--
Jeg bruker gratisversjonen av SPAMfighter for privatbrukere.
Den har fjernet 204 s?ppelpostmeldinger til n?.
Betalende brukere har ikke denne meldingen i e-postene sine.
F? tak i SPAMfighter gratis her: http://www.spamfighter.com/lno
Phil Kane
2007-09-06 05:52:40 UTC
Permalink
4. computers that u can easily talk to is the next big break
thru in electronics.
I talk to my computer all the time. Sometimes I scream in
foreign languages. It never answers back, and my wife thinks
that I am weird....

Now when it comes to the K2.....

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
Charles Harpole
2007-09-06 06:07:45 UTC
Permalink
someone said: "good cw rigs... since that's an obsolete mode, it's like
shoes with button hooks. "

Of course, he doesn't mean it and here is the story:

There is no "obsolete" in ham radio, just as there is no "obsolete" in
collecting and driving Model T cars, or using a wind-up clock, or the like.
Ham radio must come to terms with the fact that it is a hobby, no longer
cutting edge technology (for the vast most part) which few of us could
afford anyway if we could obtain it.

The FUN of ham radio is making things work... CW or tube radios, or whatever
and thus "obsolete" is out of the picture. I owns classic Collins because I
love to look at it.

73

Charles Harpole
***@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger
Café. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_SeptHMtagline1
N2EY at aol.com ()
2007-09-06 12:54:18 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 9/6/07 3:52:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Post by Julian G4ILO
I don't understand
why people have to get so competitive about radio.
Because, for some folks, it's fun to compete.

Why do folks do amateur sports competitively? (As soon as you start keeping
score and following specific rules, you're being competitive).

And consider this: The Ancient Ones were working the Antipodes on HF 75+
years ago with simple regenerative receivers, wire antennas and oscilator
transmitters putting out a few watts of RF power. All of the improvements in our
methods, rigs and antenna systems since then have been the direct results of radio
competition of various kinds.

73 de Jim, N2EY


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of
the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Thom LaCosta
2007-09-06 13:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
In a message dated 9/6/07 3:52:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Post by Julian G4ILO
I don't understand
why people have to get so competitive about radio.
Because, for some folks, it's fun to compete.
So, with today's trends in education to prohibit personal responsibility and to
shelter the youngsters from the negative aspects of competition, does that mean
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
All of the improvements in our
methods, rigs and antenna systems since then have been the direct results of radio
competition of various kinds.
If they can't play competitive sports because their delicate personalities might
get injured, how can we expect them to enter a contest where they might not
win?

All of the improvements are direct result of competition? So none of them were
made simply to satisfy the creator, or give him/her what he/she wanted that was
not driven by competition?

There are most likely a small number of folks who go about life meeting or
exceding their own standards, and don't gague their happiness or suceess on the
basis of "beating" someone else.

73 - k3hrn
Thom,EIEIO
Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer

www.baltimorehon.com/ Home of the Baltimore Lexicon
www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-06 14:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
Because, for some folks, it's fun to compete.
OK, I'll believe you. But some of the folks getting antsy in a pile-up
don't sound like they are having much fun, do they?
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
And consider this: The Ancient Ones were working the Antipodes on HF 75+
years ago with simple regenerative receivers, wire antennas and oscilator
transmitters putting out a few watts of RF power. All of the improvements in
our methods, rigs and antenna systems since then have been the direct
results of radio competition of various kinds.
But it does put into perspective the need for high power and high
specs, doesn't it. :)
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
2007-09-06 15:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian G4ILO
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
And consider this: The Ancient Ones were working the Antipodes on HF 75+
years ago with simple regenerative receivers, wire antennas and oscilator
transmitters putting out a few watts of RF power. All of the improvements in
our methods, rigs and antenna systems since then have been the direct
results of radio competition of various kinds.
But it does put into perspective the need for high power and high
specs, doesn't it. :)
Perhaps, but the Ancient Ones (hmmpf - Elders please) did not have to
contend with the amount of interference that we have today, even in 1946 the
HF bands were still quite "quiet" by comparison.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD
n2ey at aol.com ()
2007-09-06 16:33:13 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy <***@gm4esd.fsworld.co.uk>

On Sept.06/07 Julian G4ILO <***@gmail.com> wrote:?
?
N2EY:?
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
And consider this: The Ancient Ones were working the Antipodes on
HF 75+?
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
years ago with simple regenerative receivers, wire antennas and
oscilator?
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
transmitters putting out a few watts of RF power. All of the
improvements >> in?
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
our methods, rigs and antenna systems since then have been the
direct?
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
results of radio competition of various kinds.?
?
But it does put into perspective the need for high power and high?
specs, doesn't it. :)?
?
All depends how you define "need".....
Perhaps, but the Ancient Ones (hmmpf - Elders please)
Ancient Ones is a term of respect. Consider the age of anyone who
actually operated an amateur station 75+ years ago....
did not have to contend with the amount of interference that we have
today, even in 1946 the HF bands were still >quite "quiet" by
comparison.?
?
A lot depends on how the comparison is made.

75+ years ago, there were far fewer hams. Here in the USA, there were
less than 40,000 hams in 1932.

But almost all of them were on 160, 80, 40 or 20 meters. Their
transmitters were mostly not T9X and their receivers (mostly
regeneratives) were rarely narrower than 10 kc. Crystal filters in
receivers came about in the 1930s as a direct result of crowded bands.
And since those bands weren't all open at the same time, the ones that
were tended to be rather crowded....

By 1946, there were about 60,000 US hams (but a lot of them, as well as
hams all over the world, were inactive, still dealing with the
aftermath of WW2). Yet by 1946 the regen receiver and self-controlled
transmitter of 1932 were largely obsolete with hams. Note that in 1946
the WARC bands and 15 meters weren't ham bands yet, and 160 was gone to
LORAN, and we wouldn't get it all back for decades.

Most of the improvements in our methods, rigs and antenna systems have
been the direct results of competition of various kinds. For example:

- Computers in the shack were pioneered by contesters looking for a
better way to log.
- Transceivers with split operation (multiple VFOs) were pioneered by
DXers working split
- More dynamic range (in all its forms), better filters, etc., were
first pushed for by contesters and DXers.
- QRP, in and of itself, is competitive. When most of the stations on
the band are running 100 to 1500 watts out, making QSOs with 5 watts
*by choice* is certainly a challenge!

Competition takes many forms. The ham who looks at the available rigs
and says "I can do better than that" is being competitive, whether
"better" means more performance, lower cost, smaller size, more
features, etc.

Would we have the K3 - or any Elecraft rigs - if Eric, Wayne & Co.
hadn't looked at the available rigs of the time and said "We can do
better than that?"

73 de Jim, N2EY

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
=0
Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
2007-09-06 18:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by n2ey at aol.com ()
Ancient Ones is a term of respect.
Understood. In this part of the UK this usually refers to those who lived
here some thousands of years ago, whereas Elders are still living.
Post by n2ey at aol.com ()
Consider the age of anyone who actually operated an amateur station 75+
years ago....
Indeed.
.
Post by n2ey at aol.com ()
A lot depends on how the comparison is made.
There is no doubt in my mind that the availability of "plug and play" rigs
and the growth of the ham population has increased interference levels from
what they were in 1946.
Post by n2ey at aol.com ()
Most of the improvements in our methods, rigs and antenna systems have been
the direct results of competition of various kinds.
Absolutely, I think that we are in complete agreement on this point.

Eric might bark if I continue this discussion on List :-)

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD
Vic K2VCO
2007-09-06 19:10:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
There is no doubt in my mind that the availability of "plug and play"
rigs and the growth of the ham population has increased interference
levels from what they were in 1946.
Hello Geoff!

I don't remember the bands in 1946, but I do remember 1956. The 40 meter
CW band was pretty well-populated in evenings. There were jammers from
Eastern Europe, etc. And the 'phone bands had hetrodynes from the AM
carriers.

Today there is much less activity on the CW bands (except during
contests, when they are packed), but the 'phone bands are usually
well-populated with SSB.

However, the main thing that has changed is that there are so many more
sources of man-made noise. In addition to power poles, motors and
thermostats, etc. -- which we still suffer from -- there are now
countless digital devices that emit RF. Add to this the ubiquitous cheap
switching power supplies on things like desk lamps, and you have a big
increase in noise level.

That's why -- and here I'm getting on topic -- a radio like the K3,
which has (or will have) a hardware blanker for some kinds of impulse
noise, an IF DSP blanker for others, a AGC function to reduce the effect
of pulse-type noises, a DSP noise reduction function, the ability to use
very narrow bandwidths with minimal ringing, etc. is appropriate for
today's conditions.

Really a far cry from the "ANL" switch on the AM/CW receivers of 1957!
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
David Ferrington, M0XDF
2007-09-06 17:13:59 UTC
Permalink
And harder to use - I bought the K3 because I find accessing all functions
via a menu (on my FT-857) to be prohibitive.
I was looking at the FT-2000 and almost ready to buy and then there was this
announcement .....
Post by JT Croteau
People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
big screen TV's). Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.
--
Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe.
-Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642)
AJSOENKE at aol.com ()
2007-09-07 00:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Puzzles me that some would see the negative side of competition. If you
think the kids at the local schools can't deal with competition or somehow shun
it, just go to the local high school football game on a Friday night - that
cheering is coming from the stands! They are competing right along with the
ones in the mud.
Ever wonder why computer games are more popular than ham radio? And its not
just playing against the machine. The competition on the net gaming is
fierce. What do my students look forward to most of all?
1. Get to build their own radios.
2. Getting to compete to see whose rig is best performer, who finishes
first, who get their license first, who gets the first contact, who gets first dx,
who gets the top score in the next contest, who. . .
3. When they are worn out by Ham radio they can't wait to do the next logic
game design project so elementary school kids can have more classroom
competitive games. ( we make a game that allows students to play a classroom sized
version of the TV game show 'Jeopardy' ). Teachers' love them because the
kids love them. Can't make enough of them.

Al WA6VNN (Instructor of all things electronic at www.dphs.org )




************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Charles Harpole
2007-09-07 05:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Face it, MOST operators like a large front panel.



Charles Harpole
***@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer.
http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1
Don Wilhelm
2007-09-07 05:26:28 UTC
Permalink
Charles,

I cannot support that assumption, but then maybe I am not among the
"MOST operators".

Convenience for the most used functions is in order (and the K2 is
sufficient in that regard, the K3 will be better), but having a knob for
each and every function available on the radio is just not necessary in
most operating environments IMHO. The desires of the contest operator
will of course, be different than for a casual operator, but too many
buttons and knobs gets in the way of most operating scenarios that I can
imagine. If one desires a larger front panel, there is always HRD or
N4PY software to 'fix' that problem - if the resulting software panel is
not large enough, one can always get a larger monitor.

73,
Don W3FPR
Post by Charles Harpole
Face it, MOST operators like a large front panel.
Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
2007-09-07 08:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Indeed - I have a K3 on order and would pay $1,000 more for a nice 19" big
panel. Same as we have now, just bigger. Bigger buttons, bigger labels, nice
4" tuning knob (like the FTDX-9000).

The age profile of Hams who can afford new radios must show that we're
suffering from the age-related problems such as poor eyesight, less flexible
fingers and easy confusion when presented with lots of small buttons (one
reason why I like my TS-480SAT).

So - for me the K4 would be the K3 in a bigger box with maybe a nice big
speaker and 10W audio amp. I don't need a panoramic display there - nice but
not essential as I would plug a 19" monitor into the radio / panoramic
display unit anyway.

An example of a nice clean layout in a big radio is the up-coming ICOM
IC-7700, much better than the overloaded IC-7800 front panel as the IC-7700
doesn't have to cope with dual receivers.

Bottom line I guess - I don't want to wear my reading glasses to use the K3.
Got to find the glasses first which always takes 10 minutes.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
Post by Charles Harpole
Face it, MOST operators like a large front panel.
Vic K2VCO
2007-09-07 15:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
Indeed - I have a K3 on order and would pay $1,000 more for a nice 19"
big panel. Same as we have now, just bigger. Bigger buttons, bigger
labels, nice 4" tuning knob (like the FTDX-9000).
The age profile of Hams who can afford new radios must show that we're
suffering from the age-related problems such as poor eyesight, less
flexible fingers and easy confusion when presented with lots of small
buttons (one reason why I like my TS-480SAT).
I have a K2, a TS850s and a beta version K3. I more or less got used to
the K2, but I complained a lot about it being too small for my age.

My experience with the K3 is that it does not feel smaller than the
TS850s (a 'normal size' radio), although it is. The number and layout of
the controls seems right for the size of the panel. I don't feel cramped
using it.

I have an HRO-5 which is 19" or so wide. It wouldn't fit on my desk with
the other stuff, like the computer and monitor that I didn't have in 1956.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
K3 no. 00007 ('James', of course)
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
2007-09-07 09:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Elecraft did say the K3 was built to the size it is - and by the number of
orders taken they obviously made the correct decision (I managed to hold out
for 24 hours). The layout and usage will be great - but something like my
old Drake TR-7 was simpler to use (just like the operator).

The Who summed it up in 1971: 'Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy', just the way I
want my radios :-)

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
My IC-775dsp is a BIG rig and I love operating it, and it has NO menus but
a knob for everything.... ideal for HAM RADIO, not commercial or whatever.
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-07 09:48:21 UTC
Permalink
Perhaps the solution is to think outside the box. Literally.

I mean, there is no need for a bandscope to be part of the radio main
display, just because Icom does it that way. All that is needed is a
plug-in module that can be added with a coaxial socket on it, that can
be plugged in to an external display. You could even use a portable
LCD TV for the display, as some IC-7000 users do because the built in
one is too small.

For quick access to control functions something like a TV remote
control could be used. You would need an infra red module in the K3.
Perhaps an actual TV remote could be used to save costs. Some of these
are highly programmable with a touch screen. Or you could use
dedicated software on a PDA.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
Elecraft did say the K3 was built to the size it is - and by the number of
orders taken they obviously made the correct decision (I managed to hold out
for 24 hours). The layout and usage will be great - but something like my
old Drake TR-7 was simpler to use (just like the operator).
The Who summed it up in 1971: 'Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy', just the way I
want my radios :-)
Simon Brown, HB9DRV
----- Original Message -----
My IC-775dsp is a BIG rig and I love operating it, and it has NO menus but
a knob for everything.... ideal for HAM RADIO, not commercial or whatever.
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Brett gazdzinski
2007-09-07 13:48:53 UTC
Permalink
If you ever used one of the 756 series rigs, you know
just how nice the display is, and its nice having it all in one box
and not having to move/carry a screen along if you move things.

You can put a lot of information on a screen like that, and icom
was smart enough to also use a real mechanical meter along with
the very nice display.
The band scope is a very nice feature, although you might not
think so till you use one, but its only part of the nice display.
You can turn it off and copy rtty, access all kinds of options, show
loads of very detailed info at the same time, etc.
Its not a big box, but it is quite heavy.

The 756 pro series is a very nice radio, except for its abysmal
performance on receive.
At about $1200.00 it's a good buy for a used rig if you don't
mind the wide front end...

Brett
N2DTS
Post by Julian G4ILO
Perhaps the solution is to think outside the box. Literally.
I mean, there is no need for a bandscope to be part of the radio main
display, just because Icom does it that way. All that is needed is a
plug-in module that can be added with a coaxial socket on it, that can
be plugged in to an external display. You could even use a portable
LCD TV for the display, as some IC-7000 users do because the built in
one is too small.
For quick access to control functions something like a TV remote
control could be used. You would need an infra red module in the K3.
Perhaps an actual TV remote could be used to save costs. Some of these
are highly programmable with a touch screen. Or you could use
dedicated software on a PDA.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-07 14:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Yep, I had one. I sold it soon after I got my K2. Never really missed it.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by Brett gazdzinski
If you ever used one of the 756 series rigs, you know
just how nice the display is, and its nice having it all in one box
and not having to move/carry a screen along if you move things.
N2EY at aol.com ()
2007-09-07 11:46:47 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 9/6/07 2:30:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Post by Brett gazdzinski
don't know if people want it smaller, or they push
smaller stuff to the people, or if it's a young thing, or what.
1) Smaller is usually less expensive to make, to pack, and to ship. (Smaller
usually also means lighter, too).

2) A small thing can be used in more places than a large one. Like mobile.

3) As homes tend not to have basements and usable attics, people have less
space. Yet they also tend to have/want more stuff. If the stuff is smaller, they
can have more of it.

4) The size of old things was often determined by the size of the parts
inside, and how much heat they gave off. Look at an ARC-5 receiver or transmitter -
it can't get much smaller. As parts have shrunk, so have front panels.

5) If people buy the smaller stuff, the mfrs. make it.

This isn't a new thing. Back in the 1960s, W9BRD's "How's DX" column carried
a story about how the author was trying out a new rig loaned by a friend. Nice
"little" modern transceiver (NCX-3?) but the shack Siamese cat, Madame Mu,
didn't like it because she could not comfortably rest atop it.

73 de Jim, N2EY


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of
the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Charles Harpole
2007-09-07 13:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Even today's rigs have plenty of panel space only today that part is called
the top (or the bottom).

I say, set it on its rear ..... Computer tower configurations won out over
the flat type like the first IBM PCs cases.... ham radio can do that too.

Which do u want
Low and deep
Wide and shallow
?

Charles Harpole
***@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
More photos; more messages; more whatever. Windows Live Hotmail - NOW with
5GB storage.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_5G_0907
dj7mgq at muenchen-mail.de ()
2007-09-07 13:32:43 UTC
Permalink
To tell you the truth, based on years spent in TV control rooms and edit suites,
I feel the ideal setup would be panels with large buttons, sliders and shuttle
style knobs, sunk in the surface of the table. Might end up looking a bit like
these: <Loading Image...>,
<Loading Image...> or
<Loading Image...>.


vy 73 de toby
Larry Phipps
2007-09-07 13:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like our careers are similar, Toby. For decades I sat in front of
an array of switchers, mixers, edit controllers, etc., but from the late
'90s until I retired it was all done with SGI workstations. The old
style is definitely faster for live production, but for complex
post-production you can't beat the computer approach which integrates
editing, audio and CGI into one intuitive application... and one
"decision list". Sort of like traditional rigs vs. SDRs.

I made my decision to go with the K3 vs. something like a Flex 5000,
mainly because I do simple operation and speed and performance is more
important to me than complexity in my old age ;-) Also, of course,
because I can build and maintain it ;-)

73,
Larry N8LP
Post by dj7mgq at muenchen-mail.de ()
To tell you the truth, based on years spent in TV control rooms and edit suites,
I feel the ideal setup would be panels with large buttons, sliders and shuttle
style knobs, sunk in the surface of the table. Might end up looking a bit like
these: <http://www.parabol.de/parabol/bilder/Geraete_Videomischer_MX12.jpg>,
<http://www.medien.fh-wiesbaden.de/img/impressionen_galerie_campus_08.jpg> or
<http://data1.blog.de/blog/s/sammelsura/img/schnittpult.jpg>.
vy 73 de toby
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
dj7mgq at muenchen-mail.de ()
2007-09-07 13:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Hi Larry,
Post by Larry Phipps
Sounds like our careers are similar, Toby. For decades I sat in front of
.. ...
Post by Larry Phipps
"decision list".
That is why I think the "old style" would make sense for ham radio. It is live
and not post production. Non-linear setups are fantastic for 'after the fact'
editing but not for live events such as sports.

Having to move my hands and "center of attention" from horizontal to vertical
and back has always bugged me. And wouldn't a shuttle/jog knob for tuning be
wonderful?

vy 73 de toby
John Huggins
2007-09-07 13:44:23 UTC
Permalink
Another question is, for the contester, which transmitter and receiver
parameters deserve their very own control knob?

John
Post by Charles Harpole
Even today's rigs have plenty of panel space only today that part is
called the top (or the bottom).
I say, set it on its rear ..... Computer tower configurations won out
over the flat type like the first IBM PCs cases.... ham radio can do
that too.
Which do u want
Low and deep
Wide and shallow
?
Charles Harpole
_________________________________________________________________
More photos; more messages; more whatever. Windows Live Hotmail - NOW
with 5GB storage.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_5G_0907
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Julian G4ILO
2007-09-07 14:04:00 UTC
Permalink
That would be the advantage of a CAT program software interface - at
least, a theoretical advantage since I haven't seen a program that
actually does this. You could allow the user to design their own
interface. Give them a palette of knobs and buttons and displays, let
them set properties to say what parameter they controlled or showed.

I actually thought of writing a program like this, but it is easier
said than done and programming is not much fun, especially when it's
more or less what you do all day for a living, so the idea never got
off the drawing board.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
Post by John Huggins
Another question is, for the contester, which transmitter and receiver
parameters deserve their very own control knob?
Bill W5WVO
2007-09-07 16:39:37 UTC
Permalink
This is a great idea -- but I wonder if you're actually thinking of it in
terms of PHYSICAL controls, rather than SCREEN IMAGES of physical controls?
The former would be the ideal, really -- a custom-designed UI with physical
controls that suit the individual user.

Think about how high-performance aircraft cockpits are designed. Lots of
knobs, switches, lights, and other "analog" controls -- except they aren't,
mostly. They're digital behind the front panel, but they behave as if they're
analog. Why? Because human beings are analog! That's how our bodies and brains
work. For the highest real-time efficiency, you need an analog user interface
to control the machine. Not just the familiar knobs and buttons, either, but
creative, highly adaptive analog controls as well.

Now, here's the idea. You provide a kit that consists of knob, button, switch,
lever, screen, light, and other analog control and display modules. These
modules (including various sizes of space-filler dummy modules) are shaped and
sized such that they can function as plug-in building blocks. You plug them
into the connection panel and do some very simple point-and-click programming
(with a PC temporarily connected) to tell the controller what each one is and
how it is to function, and voila -- custom analog control panel. The whole
thing then plugs into the radio, which is a black box situated somewhere out
of sight.

I think this might actually work, with a little development brainstorming...
:-)

Bill / W5WVO
Post by Julian G4ILO
That would be the advantage of a CAT program software interface - at
least, a theoretical advantage since I haven't seen a program that
actually does this. You could allow the user to design their own
interface. Give them a palette of knobs and buttons and displays, let
them set properties to say what parameter they controlled or showed.
I actually thought of writing a program like this, but it is easier
said than done and programming is not much fun, especially when it's
more or less what you do all day for a living, so the idea never got
off the drawing board.
Post by John Huggins
Another question is, for the contester, which transmitter and
receiver parameters deserve their very own control knob?
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
hank k8dd
2007-09-07 14:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Huggins
Another question is, for the contester, which transmitter and receiver
parameters deserve their very own control knob?
John
That's a great question!
Main tuning - large
Second VFO/Receiver - smaller
AF & RF gain for each - the AF gain being the most used, so AF/RF main &
AF/RF Sub.
AF---())---RF for each
I dislike having to use the concentric, or "inner" control without
disturbing the the other.
Those are the most used in a contest.

Then there is the RIT for the "non-zero-beaters"!
And next would be the filter width on a knob rather than buttons you
must cycle through.

Then keyer speed, but lately that is controlled by the PC / K1EL Winkeyer.
The Bandswitch used to be right up there, but that's controlled by the
PC now with contest and logging programs!

Power, Mic gain, Compression, are nice, but pretty much "set & forget"
in a contest. You don't have a lot of time to be messing with them when
you are running or S&P.

I'd think most everything else can be buttons .... as long as they don't
bounce!

73 Hank K8DD
--
---
If God intended you to be on single sideband,
he would have given you only one nostril.
- Steve, K2PTS (SK)
---
hank k8dd
2007-09-07 16:31:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by hank k8dd
AF & RF gain for each - the AF gain being the most used, so AF/RF main
& AF/RF Sub. AF---())---RF for each
I dislike having to use the concentric, or "inner" control without
disturbing the the other.
I think what I meant for the AF/RF might be better visualized as

AF ------o)-------RF/SQ main upper control

AF ------o)-------RF/SQ sub lower control

I have never seen much use for a squelch on an HF radio, but I don't
operate FM on 10 or 6 M

And while I'm opening myself up .....
I liked the PF1, PF2, PF3 instead of the Pitch, Text Dec, Data MD .....
Make the next two to the left XIT RIT and PF4, PF5 under them
...... Put the RIT at the edge - easier to press after 6 hours in front
of the radio ..... Guess I'd rather define what I want for that row of
switches!

Besides ..... It's all "soft" isn't it? Maybe we could change them in
the future!

73 Hank K8DD
--
---
If God intended you to be on single sideband,
he would have given you only one nostril.
- Steve, K2PTS (SK)
---
J F
2007-09-07 17:31:56 UTC
Permalink
Matt,

I would like to see a SM Elecraft kit as well. Some of
the devices are pretty easy to work with, although
even some of them may be "too big" these days.

The AmQRP micro908 was my first SMD kit. I was worried
about being able to work with the small devices. But
after the first couple of components, it was actually
fun and easy.

Maybe not for everyone, but I don't think it is as
hard to do as folks fear. Requires some new tools and
a bit more patience, and GOOD magnifying visor/loop.

Cheers,
Julius
n2wn
Matt Palmer
2007-09-07 18:18:42 UTC
Permalink
It seems to me the old guys want things to get bigger, i want them
smaller, there is no reason with advances in technology and smaller
components that you cant fit a radio with the performance of the k2
(basic anyway) into an altoids tin, look at the AT-Sprint i think its
a great example of what can be done. If you want a better example i
spent the summer building and prototyping a power supply for military
radios, we shoved 350 watts with 9 outputs and red/black isolation
into a 3U conduction cooled compact pci card, which with the height
restriction that imposes i think was a pretty amazing feat. If i had
the free time to actually study the k2 and "figure it out" on the
level that don has it down, i wouldn't mind designing my own, but alas
i never have enough time to finish any of my dream projects, only to
start them and then to leave a bunch of parts and sketches in a box
somewhere.

Matt
KD8DAO
Post by J F
Matt,
I would like to see a SM Elecraft kit as well. Some of
the devices are pretty easy to work with, although
even some of them may be "too big" these days.
The AmQRP micro908 was my first SMD kit. I was worried
about being able to work with the small devices. But
after the first couple of components, it was actually
fun and easy.
Maybe not for everyone, but I don't think it is as
hard to do as folks fear. Requires some new tools and
a bit more patience, and GOOD magnifying visor/loop.
Cheers,
Julius
n2wn
N2EY at aol.com ()
2007-09-08 17:11:11 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 9/6/07 1:32:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Post by n2ey at aol.com ()
Ancient Ones is a term of respect.
Understood. In this part of the UK this usually refers to those who lived
here some thousands of years ago, whereas Elders are still living.
I did not know that! TNX

In amateur radio usage, mostly among glowbug types, it has come to mean those
who did things "back when" and are no longer with us to explain *why* they
were done.
Post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Post by n2ey at aol.com ()
Consider the age of anyone who actually operated an amateur station 75+
years ago....
Indeed.
Post by n2ey at aol.com ()
A lot depends on how the comparison is made.
There is no doubt in my mind that the availability of "plug and play" rigs
and the growth of the ham population has increased interference levels from
what they were in 1946.
Perhaps.

But OTOH, the quality of affordable rigs available to most hams today is far
above what it was then.

73 de Jim, N2EY


**************************************
See what's new at
http://www.aol.com
N2EY at aol.com ()
2007-09-08 18:45:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
All of the improvements in our
methods, rigs and antenna systems since then have been the direct results
of radio
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
competition of various kinds.
All of the improvements are direct result of competition?
Competition *of various kinds*.

So none of them were
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
made simply to satisfy the creator, or give him/her what he/she wanted that
was
not driven by competition?
When one wants something better than what already exists, and works to get
it, that's a form of competition.
Post by N2EY at aol.com ()
There are most likely a small number of folks who go about life meeting or
exceding their own standards, and don't gague their happiness or suceess on
the
basis of "beating" someone else.
Meetin or exceeding one's own standards is a form of competition, even if it
is competing with oneself.

I've been a distance runner since 1981. I've never been very fast, yet I
entered many races simply to see how well I could do. Often I ran the same race
several years in a row, in competition with myself, trying to set a "PR"
(personal record).

I've also designed and built many ham rigs, from my first 1 tube transmitter
of 40 years ago to the rig currently on my webpage. All were an attempt to do
better than I'd done before, and I learned an enormous amount from each of
them. That's another form of competition. (One of the tests of whether New Rig is
an improvement over Old Rig is how many points I could make with it in
contests like Sweepstakes).

73 de Jim, N2EY



**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...