Discussion:
[Elecraft] Changes from 100 watts to 10 watts
n***@juno.com
2002-12-28 17:12:00 UTC
Permalink
This is a critique of the Elecraft K2/100

Here are approximate changes on the NCDXF beacon
going from 100 watts to .1 watts. The station is 4U1UN
New York City on 28.200. Antenna is a 4 element beam.

S9 100 watts
S8 10 watts
S5 1 watt
S3 .1 watt


You are invited to listen to the NCDXF/ IARU beacon
network and listen for yourself the actual change in
signal level as the beacon goes fm 100 watts to 10 watts, 1
watt and 100 mW, and then you can ask yourself if
the 100 watt amplifier you just built, tested, and paid
$$$$ for is worth it. In day to day operation, the idea
of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable and you guys that
are building the amplifiers or thinking about building the
add-on units need to examine this further. The smart
guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.



N4SO
Ken Brown
Mobile, AL/EM50tk
NorCal-20/5 watts/4 ele. beam
***@juno.com










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Vic Rosenthal
2002-12-28 17:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@juno.com
S9 100 watts
S8 10 watts
S5 1 watt
S3 .1 watt
Your s-meter is interesting. There's a 10 db gap between S8-S9, but half that
between graduations at the low end.
Post by n***@juno.com
In day to day operation, the idea
of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable
I work guys every day who read S1 or do not move the s-meter at all. Sometimes
I have to strain to copy them. In fact, those are the guys I want to work (they
are DX). If my signal is also that weak at 100 watts, then would they hear me
at 10 watts?

Vic K2VCO
Mark Flavin
2002-12-28 17:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Well that settles it. I feel like a complete idiot now!


----- Original Message -----
From: <***@juno.com>
To: <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 9:08 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Changes from 100 watts to 10 watts
Post by n***@juno.com
This is a critique of the Elecraft K2/100
Here are approximate changes on the NCDXF beacon
going from 100 watts to .1 watts. The station is 4U1UN
New York City on 28.200. Antenna is a 4 element beam.
S9 100 watts
S8 10 watts
S5 1 watt
S3 .1 watt
You are invited to listen to the NCDXF/ IARU beacon
network and listen for yourself the actual change in
signal level as the beacon goes fm 100 watts to 10 watts, 1
watt and 100 mW, and then you can ask yourself if
the 100 watt amplifier you just built, tested, and paid
$$$$ for is worth it. In day to day operation, the idea
of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable and you guys that
are building the amplifiers or thinking about building the
add-on units need to examine this further. The smart
guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.
N4SO
Ken Brown
Mobile, AL/EM50tk
NorCal-20/5 watts/4 ele. beam
________________________________________________________________
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Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
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Mike McCoy
2002-12-28 17:43:00 UTC
Permalink
Sitting back with my popcorn, waiting on the pre-New Years eve fireworks ;)

Mike K5PU

----- Original Message -----
From: <***@juno.com>
To: <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 10:08 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Changes from 100 watts to 10 watts
Post by n***@juno.com
This is a critique of the Elecraft K2/100
Here are approximate changes on the NCDXF beacon
going from 100 watts to .1 watts. The station is 4U1UN
New York City on 28.200. Antenna is a 4 element beam.
S9 100 watts
S8 10 watts
S5 1 watt
S3 .1 watt
You are invited to listen to the NCDXF/ IARU beacon
network and listen for yourself the actual change in
signal level as the beacon goes fm 100 watts to 10 watts, 1
watt and 100 mW, and then you can ask yourself if
the 100 watt amplifier you just built, tested, and paid
$$$$ for is worth it. In day to day operation, the idea
of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable and you guys that
are building the amplifiers or thinking about building the
add-on units need to examine this further. The smart
guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.
N4SO
Ken Brown
Mobile, AL/EM50tk
NorCal-20/5 watts/4 ele. beam
________________________________________________________________
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Only $9.95 per month!
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_______________________________________________
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
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Michael Ross
2002-12-28 17:50:07 UTC
Permalink
"Day to day operation" can mean many things to many people. I operate at low
power levels from my apartment, using a mini G5RV, because of antenna
restrictions. I am keeping my original K2 as a QRP rig. I am building my
second K2 as a QRP/100W rig. If I operate mobile, 100 watts versus 10 watts
can mean the difference between making a QSO and not. By no means does this
mean that I can't have QSOs mobile with 10 watts. I've had plenty of mobile
CW QSOs at 5 watts using my Stealth screwdrver antenna. The only point that
I am trying to make is that "day to day" operation is as varied as we are.

73 de Mike, W2VD
Post by n***@juno.com
In day to day operation, the idea
of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable and you guys that
are building the amplifiers or thinking about building the
add-on units need to examine this further. The smart
guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.
N4SO
Ken Brown
Mobile, AL/EM50tk
NorCal-20/5 watts/4 ele. beam
Jeff Davis
2002-12-28 17:58:00 UTC
Permalink
Let's try a *better* test...

Meet me on a Saturday night on 75M SSB. I'll be the one running .1
watts and you tell me how well you can copy me.

:-)

73 de Jeff
http://www.qsl.net/ke9v/


----- Original Message -----
From: <***@juno.com>
To: <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 11:08 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Changes from 100 watts to 10 watts


This is a critique of the Elecraft K2/100

Here are approximate changes on the NCDXF beacon
going from 100 watts to .1 watts. The station is 4U1UN
New York City on 28.200. Antenna is a 4 element beam.

S9 100 watts
S8 10 watts
S5 1 watt
S3 .1 watt


You are invited to listen to the NCDXF/ IARU beacon
network and listen for yourself the actual change in
signal level as the beacon goes fm 100 watts to 10 watts, 1
watt and 100 mW, and then you can ask yourself if
the 100 watt amplifier you just built, tested, and paid
$$$$ for is worth it. In day to day operation, the idea
of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable and you guys that
are building the amplifiers or thinking about building the
add-on units need to examine this further. The smart
guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.



N4SO
Ken Brown
Mobile, AL/EM50tk
NorCal-20/5 watts/4 ele. beam
***@juno.com










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t***@blueyonder.co.uk
2002-12-28 18:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Folks,

K1 1380 is alive on the 2-band filter module. No major faults during
construction, apart from 4 unsoldered joints - the legs of the PA transistor
!!! - and the headphone ground.

Rx - 55mA
Tx - Max 6.4W into a 50ohm dummy load

I can state without fear of brickbats that it is more sensitive and
selective than my Century 21 and my HW101 !!

I got the K1 as a spur to completing my code test in January and I hope to
work some of you in the new year - I'll be the one wobbling along at 1 wpm
using a thirty feet length of carbon fibre fishing line

4 Band Filter, Noise blanker, ATU and internal battery unit to go.....

Regards,

Tony G7IGG
Trevor Day
2002-12-28 18:53:00 UTC
Permalink
That is not a critique of anything. It is also not particularly
charitable to our hosts especially at this time of year.

Trev G3ZYY
Post by n***@juno.com
This is a critique of the Elecraft K2/100
Here are approximate changes on the NCDXF beacon
going from 100 watts to .1 watts. The station is 4U1UN
New York City on 28.200. Antenna is a 4 element beam.
S9 100 watts
S8 10 watts
S5 1 watt
S3 .1 watt
You are invited to listen to the NCDXF/ IARU beacon
network and listen for yourself the actual change in
signal level as the beacon goes fm 100 watts to 10 watts, 1
watt and 100 mW, and then you can ask yourself if
the 100 watt amplifier you just built, tested, and paid
$$$$ for is worth it. In day to day operation, the idea
of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable and you guys that
are building the amplifiers or thinking about building the
add-on units need to examine this further. The smart
guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.
N4SO
Ken Brown
Mobile, AL/EM50tk
NorCal-20/5 watts/4 ele. beam
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
_______________________________________________
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
See: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
--
Trevor Day
Frank LaFranco W6NEK
2002-12-28 21:17:05 UTC
Permalink
Hello all,
The statement that beacon station 4U1UN is operating on 28.200 MHz is an
over simplification because the NCDXF beacon station referred to is only one
of 18 beacon stations, spread through the world, which rotate transmitting
on this assigned frequency. On 28.200 MHZ, the New York beacon station
4U1UN transmits 40 seconds past the hour for a period of 10 seconds. It
then repeats the 10 second interval every 3 minutes. During that 3 minute
period, 17 other NCDXF world wide stations are transmitting on this
frequency. Each of them also transmit for 10 seconds. Therefore, in one 3
minute period, you have 18 worldwide beacons each transmitting ,one at a
time, for 10 seconds. This is very useful for determining propagation
openings to various parts of the world in real time. Each beacon will send
its call sign (at 22WPM) followed by 4 one second carriers at 100W, 10W, 1W
and 0.1Watt. In addition, the same 18 world wide beacons transmit on other
HF bands. These include 20 meters (14.100 MHz), 17 Meters (18.110 MHz), 15
Meters (21.150 MHz), 12 Meters (24.930 MHz) and 10 Meters (28.200 MHz). If
you tune to these frequencies, be sure to place your rig in CW mode to
ensure you are listening to the displayed frequency. The NCDXF HF Beacon
Network is a very valuable operating aid. For more info on this network go
to: http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon.htm

73... Frank - W6NEK

----- Original Message -----
From: <***@juno.com>
To: <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 8:08 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Changes from 100 watts to 10 watts
Post by n***@juno.com
This is a critique of the Elecraft K2/100
Here are approximate changes on the NCDXF beacon
going from 100 watts to .1 watts. The station is 4U1UN
New York City on 28.200. Antenna is a 4 element beam.
S9 100 watts
S8 10 watts
S5 1 watt
S3 .1 watt
You are invited to listen to the NCDXF/ IARU beacon
network and listen for yourself the actual change in
signal level as the beacon goes fm 100 watts to 10 watts, 1
watt and 100 mW, and then you can ask yourself if
the 100 watt amplifier you just built, tested, and paid
$$$$ for is worth it. In day to day operation, the idea
of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable and you guys that
are building the amplifiers or thinking about building the
add-on units need to examine this further. The smart
guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.
N4SO
Ken Brown
Mobile, AL/EM50tk
NorCal-20/5 watts/4 ele. beam
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
_______________________________________________
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
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Ron D'Eau Claire
2002-12-29 01:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Frank, W6NEK, added some very useful facts about the propagation
beacons. It's worthwhile checking those beacons across the 20-10 meter
bands to see how conditions are. The beacons all use identical vertical
antennas too, so their signals are omni directional and have the same
effective radiated power. If you missed Frank's post, go to:
http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon.htm for all the dope!

Software is available that will run on your computer and show you a
world map with the daylight and night areas indicated and which will
identify the location of the beacon transmitting at any moment. You can
sit back on one band, listen and watch the beacons come on and off
around the world on the map. At least one version is shareware that you
can try for free at http://www.taborsoft.com/abw/.

My decision to be able to run 100 watts is based on what I hear from
those beacons, among other things. I hope that no one ever had the idea
that the difference between 10 watts and 100 watts was more than 10 dB!
(That's an easy one to remember when doing "dB" in your head. 2:1 power
difference = 3 dB and 10:1 = 10 dB). So it's about an S-unit, maybe two,
of signal difference, depending upon the "S-meter", and it is often the
difference between copy and no copy, depending upon the band conditions.


Certainly, when conditions are good it is astonishing how loud that 1
watt or even the 100 milliwatt Beacon signal can be! But then, any QRP
operator knows how that works.

To me, the K2/100 has two great features. 100 watts peak output and a
POWER control!

I love working QRP, BTW. I receive it a lot. I always listen for the
weak signals. And if they are running 1 watt or 5 watts I'll crank down
the power if the other guy gave me a pretty strong signal report and see
if he can still copy. Maybe my antenna is not as good. Maybe his
receiver isn't as good. Maybe a lot of things. But if he can't copy me
and I can copy him, I'm happy to crank up the power as needed to make a
good QSO.

It seems to the that the "skill" in a successful QRP contact is mostly
in RECEIVING the QRP signal, not in sending it!

Sure, there is a lot of pride in having an efficient station setup.
That's how good QRP ops get the milliwatts launched from a tiny
transmitter. I wonder, sometimes, just how many ops out there are
running 100 watts but who are actually radiating a QRP signal without
realizing it!

Along the same lines, when working a QRO station I tend to run the same
power he is, within the capabilities of the K2/100. That way I'm not
asking him to dig for me harder than I'm digging for him if the signals
aren't all that good. I think that's just polite.

... and no, I don't extend the value of "being polite" to the cost of a
"legal limit" amplifier <G>. But some do, and sometimes I can take the
cans off of my head and sit back and copy just fine with them sitting on
the desk and wonder if it's just my imagination or is the streetlight
outside really blinking slightly in time with his signal?...

Ron AC7AC
K2 # 1289
Mike McCoy
2002-12-29 03:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Beacons are an excellent tool to determine it it's worth the bother...

I use a nice lil simple/effective ($10) program called 'Beacon Tracker' from
W6NEK:

http://www.w6nek.com/hfbt804_001.htm

CommCat (a $50 integrated rig control/DXspot manager/logger for K2's) also
has a nice beacon utility in the tuner window. Just click on a beacon marker
on the Commcat 'bandspread dial' to tune the rig to the proper freq and
observe the call ID/location of the beacon in the tuner window. It also
automatically displays the current beacon location on the great circle map.

http://www.commcat.com/

However if you use such software it is vital that your computer is sync'd to
the correct time. I use 'Dimension 4 (formerly 'Timetick'), a freebee by
Thinkman to sync my 'puter to the US Naval Observatory.

http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/index.html

No affiliation with the above mentioned companies... I just use em and like
em ;)

73
Mike K5PU

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <***@easystreet.com>
To: <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Changes from 100 watts to 10 watts
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
Frank, W6NEK, added some very useful facts about the propagation
beacons. It's worthwhile checking those beacons across the 20-10 meter
bands to see how conditions are. The beacons all use identical vertical
antennas too, so their signals are omni directional and have the same
http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon.htm for all the dope!
Software is available that will run on your computer and show you a
world map with the daylight and night areas indicated and which will
identify the location of the beacon transmitting at any moment. You can
sit back on one band, listen and watch the beacons come on and off
around the world on the map. At least one version is shareware that you
can try for free at http://www.taborsoft.com/abw/.
Juerg Tschirren
2002-12-29 02:04:01 UTC
Permalink
Regarding the beacon software:
there is a nice Linux program, freely available under
http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/ham/ibp.html
that shows the currently transmitting beacons, both as text and on a map.

If you only have Microsoft Windows available, you should be able to get
this software to work under Cygwin (also freely available, see
http://www.cygwin.com).

Juerg
--... ...-- -.. . -. ----- .--. .--.
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
Frank, W6NEK, added some very useful facts about the propagation
beacons. It's worthwhile checking those beacons across the 20-10 meter
bands to see how conditions are. The beacons all use identical vertical
antennas too, so their signals are omni directional and have the same
http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon.htm for all the dope!
Software is available that will run on your computer and show you a
world map with the daylight and night areas indicated and which will
identify the location of the beacon transmitting at any moment. You can
sit back on one band, listen and watch the beacons come on and off
around the world on the map. At least one version is shareware that you
can try for free at http://www.taborsoft.com/abw/.
My decision to be able to run 100 watts is based on what I hear from
those beacons, among other things. I hope that no one ever had the idea
that the difference between 10 watts and 100 watts was more than 10 dB!
(That's an easy one to remember when doing "dB" in your head. 2:1 power
difference = 3 dB and 10:1 = 10 dB). So it's about an S-unit, maybe two,
of signal difference, depending upon the "S-meter", and it is often the
difference between copy and no copy, depending upon the band conditions.
Certainly, when conditions are good it is astonishing how loud that 1
watt or even the 100 milliwatt Beacon signal can be! But then, any QRP
operator knows how that works.
To me, the K2/100 has two great features. 100 watts peak output and a
POWER control!
I love working QRP, BTW. I receive it a lot. I always listen for the
weak signals. And if they are running 1 watt or 5 watts I'll crank down
the power if the other guy gave me a pretty strong signal report and see
if he can still copy. Maybe my antenna is not as good. Maybe his
receiver isn't as good. Maybe a lot of things. But if he can't copy me
and I can copy him, I'm happy to crank up the power as needed to make a
good QSO.
It seems to the that the "skill" in a successful QRP contact is mostly
in RECEIVING the QRP signal, not in sending it!
Sure, there is a lot of pride in having an efficient station setup.
That's how good QRP ops get the milliwatts launched from a tiny
transmitter. I wonder, sometimes, just how many ops out there are
running 100 watts but who are actually radiating a QRP signal without
realizing it!
Along the same lines, when working a QRO station I tend to run the same
power he is, within the capabilities of the K2/100. That way I'm not
asking him to dig for me harder than I'm digging for him if the signals
aren't all that good. I think that's just polite.
... and no, I don't extend the value of "being polite" to the cost of a
"legal limit" amplifier <G>. But some do, and sometimes I can take the
cans off of my head and sit back and copy just fine with them sitting on
the desk and wonder if it's just my imagination or is the streetlight
outside really blinking slightly in time with his signal?...
Ron AC7AC
K2 # 1289
_______________________________________________
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
See: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
k***@ENTERZONE.NET
2002-12-29 22:31:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@juno.com
This is a critique of the Elecraft K2/100
Here are approximate changes on the NCDXF beacon
going from 100 watts to .1 watts. The station is 4U1UN
New York City on 28.200. Antenna is a 4 element beam.
S9 100 watts
S8 10 watts
S5 1 watt
S3 .1 watt
That is very informative. What radio did you make these measurements
with? How is it calibrated?
Post by n***@juno.com
You are invited to listen to the NCDXF/ IARU beacon
network and listen for yourself the actual change in
signal level as the beacon goes fm 100 watts to 10 watts, 1
watt and 100 mW, and then you can ask yourself if
the 100 watt amplifier you just built, tested, and paid
$$$$ for is worth it.
Actually, I only paid $$$ for it, not $$$$ and as for the answer to that
question: It's an overwhelming YES. Don't get me wrong. I operate QRP as
well and enjoy doing so but, is the fit hits the shan and I need to use my
K2 for emergency communications of some kind, you can bet your britches
that I'm going to have the power knob full clockwise. Add to that the
fact that I got the enjoyment of sorting, building and aligning the amp
and it is worth every cent and more.
Post by n***@juno.com
In day to day operation, the idea of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable
and you guys that are building the amplifiers or thinking about
building the add-on units need to examine this further.
Charles, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. Your opinion
that I should unsubscribe from the elecraft list, one that you have sent
to me OVER AND OVER AGAIN, on the other hand was not welcome.

I think that you will find that more often than not, people use the power
knob to make up for inefficient feedline/antenna systems. They're not
forcing you to build a KPA100. Why should you begrudge them theirs?
Post by n***@juno.com
The smart guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.
I'll put my SAT, ASVAB, and IQ test scores up against yours any day. My
bet is that even there, you'll be QRP and I'll be QRO.

Insulting someone because they choose to _COMPLETE_ their K2 by adding the
100w finals is rude, crude and socially unacceptable.

You seem to have the attitude that it is your way or the highway. Guess
what Bud? This is the _real_ world. People are going to have different
tastes, differing opinions and different solutions to problems. You
solution to an inefficient antenna system may very well be to build a
better antenna system (and brag about it in your signature) while someone
else, who has antenna restrictions imposed on them will simply have to
settle for turning the power knob clockwise.

Narrowmindedness won't win you any friends among the enlightened or
intellectual. Are you certain that you want to grouped with the remaining
population?
Post by n***@juno.com
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73 de John - K4WTF
Elecraft K2/100 SN#2490 100w 160m-10m CW/SSB transceiver
Elecraft KAT100 150w Autotuner
Kenwood TS-2000 160m-10m, 6m/2m/440M/1.2G All-Mode transceiver
Kenwood TH-D7A(G) 2m/440M transceiver w/APRS
Kenwood TM-D700A 2m/440M transceiver w/APRS
Alinco DR-135TP 2m FM transceiver (digital voice enabled, of course!)
ICOM IC-T81A 6m/2m/440M/1.2G transceiver
MFJ-989C 3kw antenna tuner
RF Applications RFD 3kw digital RF power/VSWR meter
Ameritron Al-811H 160m-10m 800w PEP amplifier
Ameritron RCS-8V remote coax switch
Heil Goldline GM-5 studio microphone, shock-mounted on an articulating arm
Heil HM-10 studio microphone with HC-5 element
Heil BM-10 headset/boom microphone with HC-5 element
Heil MH2 Hand microphone for the Elecraft K2
Behringer MDX2200 Composer Pro Audio Interactive Dynamics Processor
Behringer DSP2024P Virtualizer Pro 24-bit Multi-Engine Effects Processor
Behringer Eurorack MX1604A 16-channel Mic/Line Mixer
Sangean ATS 818 FM/LW/MW/SW receiver
RS PRO-76 handheld scanner
HP 1Ghz PC with dedicated 128K TCP/IP circuit to our High Security
Datacenter (HSDC) in downtown Columbus, OH.
West Mountain Radio RIGblaster plus transceiver to computer interface
West Mountain radio RIGRunner Anderson PowerPole power distribution center
Bencher CW paddles
ClearSpeach Digital DSP speaker
MFJ-269 HF/VHF/UHF SWR Analyzer
Sony MDR-7506 headphones
C&C Instruments OSC-1030 30Mhz oscilloscope
Leader LDC-824S 520Mhz Digital Counter
540-ft 160m full-wave loop.
75m double-bazooka
75m dipole
40m dipole
20m dipole
17m full-wave loop
15m dipole
12m full-wave loop
10m dipole
6m/2m/440Mhz vertical
1.2Ghz 8-element yagi
2.4Ghz 8-element yagi
7ft 10Ghz parabolic


(Wow! I see why you brag about your beam now. That was fun!)
Julian (G4ILO)
2002-12-30 10:27:01 UTC
Permalink
I don't want to add flames to the fire this thread is becoming, but I'm not
happy with the insinuation that a K2 without the 100W PA is incomplete. The
only thing there's room for in my K2's case is the transverter module;
adding the PA would entail tossing out the battery pack and the KAT2, and I
have no desire to build or pay for a PA that I neither want nor need.

It's a pity that Elecraft didn't choose a different model number for the
higher powered model, to emphasise the difference between them, and so that
those of us who choose to run low power aren't made to feel that our K2's
are somehow inferior or incomplete.

I think there's a lot of truth in the basic statement made at the start of
this thread. The difference between 10 and 100 watts is less than 2
S-points and I personally think the extra power makes less of a difference
than those who insist on having the higher power want to believe. I'd
hazard a guess that at least 90% of the contacts that can be made with 100
watts, can be made with 10. Personally I've had more success, and less
frustration, using my K2 than I've had using any other radio I've owned in
the past, which has included some 100W models. I'd put that down to the
good audio and highly effective speech processing, which enables the 10W K2
to punch well above its weight.

I don't wish to be associated with the offensive suggestion that those who
bought the 100W PA are not very smart, but I do wish that fewer people
would consider higher power a necessity. I believe that the so-called
"Mojo" that many K2 builders talked about in the early days was simply
people who had never used low power before until the K2 forced them to,
being surprised to find how little difference there actually is between 100
watts and 10 watts. I'm personally sad that the 100W PA is now available,
as I expect that many who build a K2 now will never put it on the air until
the PA is finished, except perhaps for a brief test, and so will never make
that discovery for themselves.

73 de

Julian, G4ILO. (K2 #392)
Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/g4ilo

***@ENTERZONE.NET wrote:

[snip]

Insulting someone because they choose to _COMPLETE_ their K2 by adding the
100w finals is rude, crude and socially unacceptable.
Phil Wheeler
2002-12-30 18:28:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
It's a pity that Elecraft didn't choose a different model number for the
higher powered model, to emphasise the difference between them, and so that
those of us who choose to run low power aren't made to feel that our K2's
are somehow inferior or incomplete.
Julian,

I've been traveling and your message is the first I've read in this
thread. My take is as follows:

o K2/100 and K2 are different model numbers. Seems to me that the TX
power is the only difference and that using a "more different" model
nomenclature would suggest greater differences (e.g., in RX)

o "Made to feel": How can that be? You are responsible for how you feel.

It is true there may be some "peer pressure" to build all the Elecraft
products and that not doing so may result in feelings of "not keeping up
with the crowd". But if the K2 (vs. K2/100) is the rig you want, do not
add the KPA100 nor KAT100.

Re nomenclature: What really has me addled is the pre-3000 vs. 3000+ K2
situation. Mine (S/N 380) has some of the mods in the 3000+ version but
not all. My challenge for the new year will be to get caught up on that
situation (what changes and which I've done) so I can have the latest
and greatest K2. version!

73 es Happy New Year, Phil
W B Reese
2002-12-31 13:31:01 UTC
Permalink
Dear Fellow Elecrafters,
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
I guess it depends a lot on how often the nomenclature "K2/100" gets used
on the air, or whether it gets shortened to the more convenient "K2".
Julian, G4ILO. (K2 #392)

I have a K2/100 which almost all the time I do not run at 5W, 10W, or
100W. I tend to run power levels like 7.5W, 30W, or 75W. You just never
can tell... It always depends on the conditions, anytime I'm getting a
really strong signal from the other guy I have this strong tendency to turn
down the power... It's so-o-o-o easy...

So my point is, if I'm running 7.5W why can't I tell the other fellow I'm
running aK2/7.5 ????? I know it isn't right, but it crosses my mind every
time I QSO.

OM, NOW RUNNING A K2/.5W ...

Very 73,

Tracy S/N 0838
WB6TMY CFO #1000

__________________________

E-Mail: - ***@radions.net
Tel: - - - - - - - - - - - 707-321-0004
Fax: - - - - - - - - - - 707-527-8124
k***@ENTERZONE.NET
2002-12-30 19:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
I don't want to add flames to the fire this thread is becoming, but I'm not
happy with the insinuation that a K2 without the 100W PA is incomplete.
The K2 was designed as a 100w radio. If you don't believe me, ask Wayne
and Eric.
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
The only thing there's room for in my K2's case is the transverter
module; adding the PA would entail tossing out the battery pack and
the KAT2, and I have no desire to build or pay for a PA that I neither
want nor need.
And you are in the company of thousands of like minded individuals who are
just tickled pink with their K2 in QRP configuration. You have built the
radio the way you want it. You don't want or need the amp and that is
just fine. It doesn't bother me at all. There is a whole other camp of
people who, for whatever reason, build the K2 with the 100w RF deck.
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
It's a pity that Elecraft didn't choose a different model number for the
higher powered model, to emphasise the difference between them, and so that
those of us who choose to run low power aren't made to feel that our K2's
are somehow inferior or incomplete.
Automobile manufacturers have been providing a V8 or V6/4-cyl version of
vehicles such as the Mustang. I can spot the difference between them
visually from about 50yds away but, it doesn't make the 4-cyl version any
less "Mustang" than the V8. You built the K2 that you wanted. You stated
above that you neither want nor need the KPA100 so, obviously your K2
isn't inferior. If there isn't room for anything but the transverter in
your K2 case, you've obviously got a more "complete" K2 that I have. I
only have the KSB2, K150M and KPA100 in my K2.

I guess that the only "complete" K2 in my humble and most definately NOT
THE LAST WORD opinion, is one that has every option available for the
configuration (QRP or QRO) being built.

Hopefully, Elecraft will continue to come out with more nifty things to
build for the K2 or to complement the K2. I don't mind being incomplete
as long as I get to build more stuff!
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
I think there's a lot of truth in the basic statement made at the start of
this thread. The difference between 10 and 100 watts is less than 2
S-points and I personally think the extra power makes less of a difference
than those who insist on having the higher power want to believe. I'd
hazard a guess that at least 90% of the contacts that can be made with 100
watts, can be made with 10.
I'm going to hazard a guess that the 10% of contacts that require 100w
will be 75m phone and 160m phone. Come down to 3.875 some summer
night. When the band noise is at S8, it doesn't do you any good to be S7
with 10w.
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
Personally I've had more success, and less frustration, using my K2
than I've had using any other radio I've owned in the past, which has
included some 100W models. I'd put that down to the good audio and
highly effective speech processing, which enables the 10W K2 to punch
well above its weight.
I agree although, since I use the K2 mostly on phone, I keep the power
knob full clockwise.
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
I don't wish to be associated with the offensive suggestion that those who
bought the 100W PA are not very smart, but I do wish that fewer people
would consider higher power a necessity. I believe that the so-called
"Mojo" that many K2 builders talked about in the early days was simply
people who had never used low power before until the K2 forced them to,
being surprised to find how little difference there actually is between 100
watts and 10 watts.
I am very happy that you don't want to be associated with the comments
made by CHARLES K BROWN, 12165 MILLER LN, GRAND BAY, AL, 36541, USA. I
don't know anyone who does want to be associated with them.

I would like to think that more than a few K2/100 owners think like I
do. That is - "It sure a relief to know that I've got the extra 10db if I
_need_ it but, man this is cool operating at 2w!" If the conditions
permit it, I'm not against turning the power knob counter-clockwise. I
also think that there is Mojo involved with 100w contacts on the K2
also. It's just spelled "MOjO" vs "Mojo"... ;->
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
I'm personally sad that the 100W PA is now available, as I expect that
many who build a K2 now will never put it on the air until the PA is
finished, except perhaps for a brief test, and so will never make that
discovery for themselves.
73 de
Julian, G4ILO. (K2 #392)
I think, and HOPE that people will surprise you Julian!

73 and Happy New Year de John - K4WTF

PS: I'm personally jealous of the low serial number holders like you.
Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
2002-12-30 19:49:00 UTC
Permalink
Folks, lets keep the discussion on this topic civil. Healthy disagreements
and discussion are fine, but any more personal attacks will result in
removal from the list.

By the way, we designed the K2 as a QRP radio (the K2) and as a QRO radio
(the K2/100). We kept the K2 nomenclature because the core radio and its Rx
performance stays the same for both versions. This also helped us conserve
our design resources and keep focused on new features and products. We
certainly didn't mean to slight anyone with the QRO option! ;^)

We also designed the 100W version as an option rather than a completely
different model in order to keep our inventory within reason. Stocking
completely different radio models in finished goods causes us to have to
carry a lot more inventory and create duplicate documentation which is very
expensive for a small company. Our goal is to be here for the long run.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator
======
Post by k***@ENTERZONE.NET
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
I don't want to add flames to the fire this thread is becoming, but I'm not
happy with the insinuation that a K2 without the 100W PA is incomplete.
The K2 was designed as a 100w radio. If you don't believe me, ask Wayne
and Eric.
N2TK
2002-12-30 21:21:00 UTC
Permalink
My only questions is this normal for the K2 in regards to S-meter readings
vs power change?
- S8-S9 = 10db
- S5-S8 = 10db
- S3-S5 = 10db

What is typical linearity of S-meter?

Tony
N2TK

-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft-***@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-***@mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of ***@juno.com
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 11:08
To: ***@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Changes from 100 watts to 10 watts

This is a critique of the Elecraft K2/100

Here are approximate changes on the NCDXF beacon
going from 100 watts to .1 watts. The station is 4U1UN
New York City on 28.200. Antenna is a 4 element beam.

S9 100 watts
S8 10 watts
S5 1 watt
S3 .1 watt


You are invited to listen to the NCDXF/ IARU beacon
network and listen for yourself the actual change in
signal level as the beacon goes fm 100 watts to 10 watts, 1
watt and 100 mW, and then you can ask yourself if
the 100 watt amplifier you just built, tested, and paid
$$$$ for is worth it. In day to day operation, the idea
of a K2 at 100 watts is questionable and you guys that
are building the amplifiers or thinking about building the
add-on units need to examine this further. The smart
guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.



N4SO
Ken Brown
Mobile, AL/EM50tk
NorCal-20/5 watts/4 ele. beam
***@juno.com










________________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list: ***@mailman.qth.net
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
See: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Phil Wheeler
2002-12-31 00:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@juno.com
The smart
guys are ones with the K2 left at the original QRP levels.
Good to know that I can return to "smart" status in less than five
minutes, Ken :) That's how long it takes me to remove the KPA100 and
restore the KAT2 for portable QRP battery ops.

73, Phil
Julian (G4ILO)
2002-12-31 12:14:00 UTC
Permalink
I guess it depends a lot on how often the nomenclature "K2/100" gets used
on the air, or whether it gets shortened to the more convenient "K2". I'm
guessing, too, that the 100W models will eventually outnumber the 10W ones
so the name "K2" won't be synonymous with "QRP". When I decided to go
all-QRP I sold a 100W Icom radio because I didn't want to be in the
position of making a QSO where the other guy was struggling to hear me and
didn't want to persevere because he thought I could simply turn the power
up. It doesn't help me or, I think, any QRP operator, to have people think
you're using a radio that's capable of 100 watts.

I agree about the post-3000 SN situation. Perhaps the new ones should have
been called the K2 Mk II. Perhaps Elecraft would even have made more sales
out of it, as more existing owners would have been tempted to upgrade.

73 and Happy New Year
--
Julian, G4ILO. (K2 #392)
Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/g4ilo



==== Original message ====
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
Julian,
I've been traveling and your message is the first I've read in this
o K2/100 and K2 are different model numbers. Seems to me that the TX
power is the only difference and that using a "more different" model
nomenclature would suggest greater differences (e.g., in RX)
o "Made to feel": How can that be? You are responsible for how you
feel.
It is true there may be some "peer pressure" to build all the Elecraft
products and that not doing so may result in feelings of "not keeping up
with the crowd". But if the K2 (vs. K2/100) is the rig you want, do not
add the KPA100 nor KAT100.
Re nomenclature: What really has me addled is the pre-3000 vs. 3000+ K2
situation. Mine (S/N 380) has some of the mods in the 3000+ version but
not all. My challenge for the new year will be to get caught up on that
situation (what changes and which I've done) so I can have the latest
and greatest K2. version!
73 es Happy New Year, Phil
Vic Rosenthal
2002-12-31 16:32:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
I guess it depends a lot on how often the nomenclature "K2/100" gets used
on the air, or whether it gets shortened to the more convenient "K2".
I prefer to call mine a K2/100/T to indicate that I wound my own toroids. I
would just hate it for anyone to feel that perhaps I had taken the somewhat
easier but less demanding route of purchasing them prewound. Actually, I've
lately been using the designation K2/100/T/C to indicate that I had to deal with
my cat climbing my leg to demand treats during construction, a factor which also
added significantly to the difficulty and the moral virtue garnered therefrom.

Vic K2VCO
Julian (G4ILO)
2002-12-31 12:15:00 UTC
Permalink
I don't know what was in Eric and Wayne's minds when they designed the K2.
Certainly the information I had was that it was a 10W transceiver, and it
was several months before there was talk of a 100W PA on this reflector.

The trouble with the 10/100W argument is that it applies equally to
100W/1000W. There's always going to be a situation where more power would
help.

But 100W is just an arbitrary figure: it's neither QRP nor the legal limit.
It might gain me a few more contacts compared to 10W, but I'd be playing in
a pool with much bigger fish. By choosing to go QRP I eliminate the
frustration of not being able to use higher power, because if I did it
would be cheating on the QRP restriction. I might make fewer contacts with
QRP but I get greater satisfaction because I'm no longer comparing my
results with people who can run 1KW. Another upside: nobody makes a special
effort to hear you, or compliments you on your weak signal, if you say
you're using 100W. They do if you're using 5W or 10.

But my only disagreement is with those who think that a 10W radio is almost
worthless. Like those who wouldn't buy a K2 kit while there was no 100W PA
available; those who gave Wayne and Eric hassle over the long period
between the PA's announcement and it's appearance, and the few who actually
sold their K2's because they were fed up with waiting. I think the problem
is that in many people's subconscious, one tenth the power equals one tenth
the number of contacts. If that were really the case, QRP would not be such
a popular branch of this hobby. (But it probably explains the number of
people who run 100W and are received at S9, who are surprised that my 10W
are almost S8!)

73 and Happy New Year to all,
--
Julian, G4ILO. (K2 #392)
Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/g4ilo



==== Original message ====

***@ENTERZONE.NET wrote:

[snip]

The K2 was designed as a 100w radio. If you don't believe me, ask Wayne
and Eric.

[snip]
Post by k***@ENTERZONE.NET
I'm going to hazard a guess that the 10% of contacts that require 100w
will be 75m phone and 160m phone. Come down to 3.875 some summer
night. When the band noise is at S8, it doesn't do you any good to be
S7
with 10w.
N***@aol.com
2002-12-31 13:35:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
I'm not
happy with the insinuation that a K2 without the 100W PA is incomplete. The
only thing there's room for in my K2's case is the transverter module;
adding the PA would entail tossing out the battery pack and the KAT2, and I
have no desire to build or pay for a PA that I neither want nor need.
My K2 has KAT2 and KAF2. Maybe I'll go for the noise blanker at some point.
It's neither "complete" nor "incomplete".
Post by Ron D'Eau Claire
It's a pity that Elecraft didn't choose a different model number for the
higher powered model, to emphasise the difference between them, and so that
those of us who choose to run low power aren't made to feel that our K2's
are somehow inferior or incomplete.
Nobody's K2 is "inferior or incomplete". K2 and K1 are SYSTEMS, thus the name
appears in all the related products. System consists of the basic
transceiver, to which can be added various options as desired or needed. Some
options are incompatible with others - the KIO2, KAT2 and KBT2 are
incompatible with the KPA100, for example.

One "best" implementation of the K2 system is to put the KPA100 and KAT100 in
a separate EC2 enclosure, that can be quickly dis/connected to the K2. QRP
for the field, QRO for home.

But Elecraft cannot sell such a system because FCC won't certify it. (As if
illegals will spend $4/watt for an amplifier that will only work with one
rig!).

Perhaps at some future date, Elecraft will conside offering the K2 innards in
a bigger case that can hold every possible option at once.

73 de Jim, N2EY
Wallace, Andy
2002-12-31 14:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by N2TK
-----Original Message-----
Like those who wouldn't buy a K2 kit while there
was no 100W PA available; those who gave Wayne and Eric
hassle over the long period between the PA's announcement
and its appearance, and the few who actually
sold their K2's because they were fed up with waiting.
Here's another take on it -- how many U.S. manufacturers
of 100W HF rigs are left? Elecraft, Ten-Tec, and is Kachina
still around? The fact that I can pay for a rig made in
my country is a plus, to me.

A K2/100 can become a K2. An FT-897 can't become an FT-817.
:-)

-Andy
N2TK
2002-12-31 14:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Huh? How does the person who is trying to copy you know if you are using a
QRP rig or a 100w rig with the power cut back? A weak signal sounds the same
whether you are using either rig. When I'm trying to pull out a weak signal
I am trying to copy the person's call, not what rig they are using.
Maybe the folks who build these very small milliwatt QRP rigs in pill boxes
think the original K2 owners are high power folks?
Tony
N2TK

-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft-***@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-***@mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Julian (G4ILO)
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 05:04
To: Phil Wheeler
Cc: Elecraft List
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Changes from 100 watts to 10 watts

I guess it depends a lot on how often the nomenclature "K2/100" gets used
on the air, or whether it gets shortened to the more convenient "K2". I'm
guessing, too, that the 100W models will eventually outnumber the 10W ones
so the name "K2" won't be synonymous with "QRP". When I decided to go
all-QRP I sold a 100W Icom radio because I didn't want to be in the
position of making a QSO where the other guy was struggling to hear me and
didn't want to persevere because he thought I could simply turn the power
up. It doesn't help me or, I think, any QRP operator, to have people think
you're using a radio that's capable of 100 watts.

I agree about the post-3000 SN situation. Perhaps the new ones should have
been called the K2 Mk II. Perhaps Elecraft would even have made more sales
out of it, as more existing owners would have been tempted to upgrade.

73 and Happy New Year
--
Julian, G4ILO. (K2 #392)
Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/g4ilo



==== Original message ====
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
Julian,
I've been traveling and your message is the first I've read in this
o K2/100 and K2 are different model numbers. Seems to me that the TX
power is the only difference and that using a "more different" model
nomenclature would suggest greater differences (e.g., in RX)
o "Made to feel": How can that be? You are responsible for how you
feel.
It is true there may be some "peer pressure" to build all the Elecraft
products and that not doing so may result in feelings of "not keeping up
with the crowd". But if the K2 (vs. K2/100) is the rig you want, do not
add the KPA100 nor KAT100.
Re nomenclature: What really has me addled is the pre-3000 vs. 3000+ K2
situation. Mine (S/N 380) has some of the mods in the 3000+ version but
not all. My challenge for the new year will be to get caught up on that
situation (what changes and which I've done) so I can have the latest
and greatest K2. version!
73 es Happy New Year, Phil
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list: ***@mailman.qth.net
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
See: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
k***@ENTERZONE.NET
2002-12-31 16:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
The trouble with the 10/100W argument is that it applies equally to
100W/1000W. There's always going to be a situation where more power would
help.
Tim the Tool Man Tailor comes to mind. Boy, I wonder if there would be
any fingerprints left on his hands after he completed a K2? (Or the front
panel board for that matter!)
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
But 100W is just an arbitrary figure: it's neither QRP nor the legal limit.
I'm pretty sure that some research went into the 100w "defacto" power
level that most of the off-the-shelf HF rigs are capable of. Otherwise, I
can't imagine why everyone would choose around 100w. It would be
interesting to know just what the research was though.
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
But my only disagreement is with those who think that a 10W radio is almost
worthless. Like those who wouldn't buy a K2 kit while there was no 100W PA
available; those who gave Wayne and Eric hassle over the long period
between the PA's announcement and it's appearance, and the few who actually
sold their K2's because they were fed up with waiting. I think the problem
is that in many people's subconscious, one tenth the power equals one tenth
the number of contacts. If that were really the case, QRP would not be such
a popular branch of this hobby. (But it probably explains the number of
people who run 100W and are received at S9, who are surprised that my 10W
are almost S8!)
The KPA100 wasn't available when I ordered my K2 and to be quite honest, I
don't think that it ever crossed my mind. I don't know who it was,
hopefully they'll step forward, but, I stumbled upon a K2 owner running
PSK31 on 20m I think one night. We chatted for almost an hour with 100%
copy. He was camping and 100% battery power with an expedient antennam,
his K2 and a laptop. He was running 2-3w but was making trip to here from
somewhere on the left side of the country just fine. He expounded upon
the virtues of the K2 for a while and answered the obvious questions like
"was it hard?" "How long did it take?" from me. After we went QRT, I
fired up the laptop and went out to the elecraft site. A few days later,
a box full of parts that would later become K2 #2490 arrived at my house!

I'm not sure if I should feel sorry for or envy the guys who sold their
K2's prior to the KPA100 being released. I mean, they missed out on some
operating time with the K2 but, now, they get to build another one!


Happy New Year and remember every one, if you're going to drink, don't
drive! And if you're going to drive, watch out for the fools who ignore
the first suggestion!

73 de John - K4WTF
Julian (G4ILO)
2002-12-31 18:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Tony,

An exchange of equipment details is usual outside of contest or pile-up
operation, as I'm sure you know. I think some folks would either think they
mis-copied the power, or that I am not being very helpful persisting with
QRP under such conditions when using a radio they believe capable of 100W.

73,
--
Julian, G4ILO. (K2 #392)
Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/g4ilo



==== Original message ====
Post by N2TK
Huh? How does the person who is trying to copy you know if you are using
a
QRP rig or a 100w rig with the power cut back? A weak signal sounds the
same
whether you are using either rig. When I'm trying to pull out a weak
signal
I am trying to copy the person's call, not what rig they are using.
Maybe the folks who build these very small milliwatt QRP rigs in pill
boxes
think the original K2 owners are high power folks?
Tony
N2TK
Douglas Westover
2002-12-31 20:55:12 UTC
Permalink
I'm sorry, this has got to be the silliest thread going. Repeat after me,
"It doesn't matter what the OTHER guy does with his radio, I know
what I'm doing with mine". I have enjoyed the K2 as a strictly "QRP"
radio for a long while, now up to 200 countries at 10 watts or less
(of course you "purists" will haggle over 10 watts vs. 5 watts vs. 1
watt, etc., etc.....). As soon as the KPA100 was available I ordered
one because I enjoy some extra power under marginal conditions.
I also own (gasp!) an 800 watt amp (the last time I used it was to
work P5/4L4FN in North Korea, 6 months ago). The point is use the
power appropriate to your current communication needs! And don't
give people who don't conform to your idea of "what's right" a bunch
of crap!

73 & Happy New Year to All. You're a great bunch!

Doug
W6JD
K2/100 #1626 and proud of it.

BTW.. If any of you happen to be Dire Straits fans, I'm concurrently
listening to Mark Knopfler's solo album "The Ragpicker's Dream".
Outstanding!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian (G4ILO)" <***@qsl.net>
To: "N2TK" <***@verizon.net>; "'Phil Wheeler'" <***@earthlink.net>
Cc: "'Elecraft List'" <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Changes from 100 watts to 10 watts
Post by Julian (G4ILO)
Tony,
An exchange of equipment details is usual outside of contest or pile-up
operation, as I'm sure you know. I think some folks would either think they
mis-copied the power, or that I am not being very helpful persisting with
QRP under such conditions when using a radio they believe capable of 100W.
73,
--
Julian, G4ILO. (K2 #392)
Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/g4ilo
==== Original message ====
Post by N2TK
Huh? How does the person who is trying to copy you know if you are using
a
QRP rig or a 100w rig with the power cut back? A weak signal sounds the
same
whether you are using either rig. When I'm trying to pull out a weak
signal
I am trying to copy the person's call, not what rig they are using.
Maybe the folks who build these very small milliwatt QRP rigs in pill
boxes
think the original K2 owners are high power folks?
Tony
N2TK
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Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
2002-12-31 21:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Looks like we have beat this thread to death ;^). Let's let it die for now.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator
Julian (G4ILO)
2002-12-31 18:59:00 UTC
Permalink
I thought that it simply happened to be the output power that a couple of
TV sweep tubes in push-pull (as used in the earliest commercial SSB
transceivers) were capable of. Before that (and before my time as a ham) I
think that transmitters such as those made by Heathkit produced as little
as 40 watts. Given how relatively poor receivers were in those days, it's
amazing anyone made any contacts!

73,
--
Julian, G4ILO. (K2 #392)
Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/g4ilo



==== Original message ====

***@ENTERZONE.NET wrote:

[snip]
Post by k***@ENTERZONE.NET
I'm pretty sure that some research went into the 100w "defacto" power
level that most of the off-the-shelf HF rigs are capable of. Otherwise,
I
can't imagine why everyone would choose around 100w. It would be
interesting to know just what the research was though.
N***@aol.com
2002-12-31 19:15:00 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 12/31/02 10:37:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Post by k***@ENTERZONE.NET
I'm pretty sure that some research went into the 100w "defacto" power
level that most of the off-the-shelf HF rigs are capable of. Otherwise, I
can't imagine why everyone would choose around 100w. It would be
interesting to know just what the research was though.
Here's my theory: It all goes back to tubes.

About 1950, RCA developed the 6146 tube, basically as an improvement to the
prewar 807 and its relatives. 6146 proved very popular with both homebrewers
and kit manufacturers for a number of reasons, and became probably the most
popular final amplifier tube in ham gear from about 1951 onwards. Rigs from
inexpensive Heath and Eico kits to the famous Collins S-line used 6146s.

6146 was popular because it combined all the needed features of an HF ham
final tube: low cost, rugged, good power output with low plate voltage and
low drive, good SSB performance and it could be used from 160-10 in
conventional circuits. (Some hams used them as high as 2 meters!).

'50s AM-CW rigs often used either a single 6146 or a pair. When Collins
produced the S-line in 1958-9, they chose a pair of 6146s in Class AB1,
resulting in about 100 watts output on CW and 100 watts average on SSB. This
became the de-facto standard for many rigs, even those which did not use
6146s.

It became so engrained that the power level break in most contests was set
around 100 watts RF output. (ARRL uses 150 watts nowadays, which is pretty
close).

The popularity of grounded-grid linears in ham use just added to the 100 watt
popularity, because most designs needed 50-100 watts of drive. So a ham could
start out with a 100 watt class rig, and add the amplifier if/when desired,
without wasting any RF watts.

When transistors began replacing tubes in HF ham rigs, the "100 watt" level
was so engrained that rig designers simply kept the paradigm. This was
particularly important to hams using amplifiers.

All because of a bottle from a half century ago.

73 de Jim, N2EY
Bob Tellefsen
2002-12-31 19:59:01 UTC
Permalink
I enjoy contesting with my K2 at 5w. I don't let on that I am QRP, unless
the exchange has something like a Q required in the exchange.
I prefer to go head on and give no quarter, take no prisoners :-)

When I'm just operating for ragchew purposes, I like to hold off telling
the other station I'm QRP until after he has given me a signal report.
I'll also stall it off as long as possible after that, because often
they will have a sudden phone call, or the xyl needs help, or QSB suddenly
afflicts the band terribly :-)

If they have stuck with me that long, they are more likely to want to talk
about QRPing than up and leave.

Have fun QRPing, everyone. Happy New Year.
73, Bob N6WG
Mark A. Sandler
2003-01-01 04:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Hello Vic & Fellow Elecrafters:

Actually when I operate pedestrian mobile while walking my dog, I sign as
===>
K7MAS/pmwcc (Pedestrian Mobile With Canine Companion). So let me get
this right...when working from my shack at home, I should
sign..K7MAS/K2/100/T/D (T for self wound Torroids and D for Dog begging
for Dinner). Sounds right to me.

73 and Happy New Year to all, Mark, K7MAS

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