Discussion:
[Elecraft] Re:"what else can I design for you....
Martin (Martin)
2003-04-28 19:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Hello gang,
how about that?

http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/thebasement/txrx.html

:-)
--
Best regards,
Martin
K2 #2706 mailto:***@t-online.de
WQ8Q
2003-04-29 02:43:01 UTC
Permalink
This may be heresy to the dyed-in-the-wool QRP guys here, but if the K2-100
(or something much like it) were a bit larger, even with empty space in the
cabinet and it looked a little more impressive (a little slicker looking )as
a base HF rig, I'd sell my Omni V tomorrow and build one. Not everyone
wants to take every rig with them as a portable station.

So I guess what I'd like to see is a "full sized" K2-100 (okay, not as large
as an Omni V).

That being said, my K1 arrives tomorrow and I'm looking forward to building
it and using it out in the woods where I'm building a house.

73 de Rick, WQ8Q
George Winship
2003-04-29 03:22:00 UTC
Permalink
One of the most common comments I get about my K2 is how "slick" it
looks. The photos in the magazines do not do it justice. As far as the
size goes , I like small. My shack is a card table. Small is good.

So, as the saying goes, each to his own.

Dream on elecraft!!!!

George, NC5G K2-2217
J***@aol.com
2003-04-29 03:37:00 UTC
Permalink
I would like to see a good power supply for proper charging of the K2 batteries. I do have something capable of 14 or 15 volts, but it weighs about 100 pounds and sits in my parents basement.. not my apartment. It would be nice if elecraft had one out there...
Kevin Cozens
2003-04-29 04:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Greetings.
Post by J***@aol.com
I would like to see a good power supply for proper charging of the K2
batteries.
That reminds me of one other item I would like to see for the K2. An
optional solar panel charge controller that can be installed in the unit
just like other add-on options.

Cheers!

Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Internet:kcozens at interlog.com |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
or:ve3syb at rac.ca |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:***@ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | -Pinkutus & the Borg
N***@aol.com
2003-04-29 11:30:01 UTC
Permalink
In a message dated 4/28/03 9:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Post by WQ8Q
This may be heresy to the dyed-in-the-wool QRP guys here, but if the K2-100
(or something much like it) were a bit larger, even with empty space in the
cabinet
I second this! Perhaps it could be called a "K2B" (for "big"). Same basic
rig, same options, but in a cabinet big enough to hold a fully loaded K2
including the 100 W amp, tuner and battery inside. Bigger front panel and
display, maybe even more buttons.
Post by WQ8Q
and it looked a little more impressive (a little slicker looking )as
a base HF rig,
Actually, I think the K2 and K1 look slicker than most "manufactured" rigs.
It looks like a ham rig, not a DVD player!
Post by WQ8Q
Not everyone
wants to take every rig with them as a portable station.
If you could only see some of the stuff I've taken portable!

73 de Jim, N2EY
Brian Machesney
2003-04-29 14:57:01 UTC
Permalink
I would like to have the base K2's output power increase to 25W. This
would allow it to drive my amp (heresy, I know) without the KPA100. I
would leave the KPA100 + KAT150 in an EC2 in the car for mobile
operation and I would load up the K2 (battery, low-power tuner) for
"portable" operation. Same or better business for Elecraft (yes, their
financial success is important!), more operating flexibility for me.

Many will question whether 4X power increase of the KPA100 would be
"worth it" in terms of dB, versus the current 7X ratio of today's K2.
Like so many engineering questions the answer is, "It depends."
Obviously, I think it would be worthwhile.

Brian K1LI
K1 269, K2 3070
Dave
2003-04-29 16:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Brian

In order to achieve 25 Watts output, the power consumption at lower power
levels would be higher than present. So a 25 Watt K2 wouldn't be such a nice
portable station...

Dave, G4AON
K2 #1892, K1 #1154

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Machesney" <***@timelabcorp.com>
To: <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:52 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Re:"What else can I design for you...."
Post by Brian Machesney
I would like to have the base K2's output power increase to 25W. This
would allow it to drive my amp (heresy, I know) without the KPA100. I
would leave the KPA100 + KAT150 in an EC2 in the car for mobile
operation and I would load up the K2 (battery, low-power tuner) for
"portable" operation. Same or better business for Elecraft (yes, their
financial success is important!), more operating flexibility for me.
Many will question whether 4X power increase of the KPA100 would be
"worth it" in terms of dB, versus the current 7X ratio of today's K2.
Like so many engineering questions the answer is, "It depends."
Obviously, I think it would be worthwhile.
Brian K1LI
K1 269, K2 3070
WQ8Q
2003-04-29 20:34:00 UTC
Permalink
I guess here's the point I'm trying to make about the K2/100 . . . when the
K2 was a portable, low power consumption QRP radio, then it was fine for
what it was (and still is). When Elecraft elected to make a 100 watt
option this opened up the Elecraft doors to, let's say, a different ham
market who was not interested in small/portable/low power consumption rigs.
Now that the door has been opened, some of us in that category would like to
see a larger, more stylish, full of lights/knobs/buttons radio that would
feel comfortable to operate and look good in a dedicated ham shack. It
doesn't have to look like the latest CD player, but be something a little
more substantial looking on the operating desk.

I'ts funny, but on the TenTec website, the same argument goes on: "I don't
want my radio to look like my stereo system" and some of the YaeComWood
folks think the TenTec radios (Omni V & VI vintage) remind them of tractors.

I'm not knocking the K2 for what it is - but now there is some evolving
going on, and while the original K2 can remain the same for those QRP
afficianados . . . it seems to me that as Elecraft's opening the door to a
wider customer base, then maybe some changes or additions need to be made.

The best thing I see about Elecraft is the word "options" as one can build
the radios with as many or as few options as one desires or can afford.

73 de Rick, WQ8Q
Wallace, Andy
2003-04-30 13:42:02 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
=20
Now that the door has been opened, some of us in that=20
category would like to see a larger, more stylish,=20
full of lights/knobs/buttons radio that would
feel comfortable to operate and look good in a dedicated ham=20
shack. It doesn't have to look like the latest CD player, but be=20
something a little more substantial looking on the operating desk.
Great points - question is, who's the packaging engineer at
Elecraft? I'm guessing "he" is Wayne and Eric... The big guns
can have all kinds of fancy front panel moldings, LCD matrix
displays, backlit buttons -- it's like a car: you have to make
this year's model look "better" than last year's, regardless of
whether the bill of materials for the powertrain changed one bit.

I grew up starting at the S-meter of a National HRO-50 receiver.
Now, THAT is an S-meter! Beautiful red and yellow, backlit with
black background. When someone mentioned having a bigger K2, even
if it meant lots of empty space, the first rig I thought of was
the National NC-300. I've never owned one, but this is a huge
ham band receiver with a drum slide-rule dial and miniature tubes --
LOTS of empty space inside!

Raymond Loewy, who designed lots of Art Deco style things, did
the Hallicrafters SX-42 and humble S-38 receivers, from what I
remember. But that wasn't exactly a low budget, two-engineer=20
operation.

The K1 and the K2 look okay to me. At first, I didn't care for the
tactile pushbuttons - it felt like a cheap microwave or something.=20
But now I like them, maybe even more so than the floppy conductive=20
rubber style buttons on other modern rigs. The nomenclature on
the front panel is okay -- though I wish there was room for
a bit more, especially for the two-button-press functions like
"AGC OFF" and "WHAT FILTER AM I USING?" - though it is not hard
to remember that. For some reason, I would prefer a "PHONES" label
on the headphone jack. The icon looks incongruous. And did you
notice that the K1 has the Elecraft logo but the K2 doesn't?

The powdercoat paint seems to stand up VERY well.=20

Ergonomics on the rigs are not terrible. It's obvious that Wayne
and Eric aimed for portability, even though many people would later
use the K2 as a shack-only rig. As a result, the knobs are a bit
small, a bit cramped. I'd be happier if the tuning knob were moved
to the right 1/4 inch, which would keep me from bumping into the=20
smaller knobs to the left.=20

A bigger front panel would mean a bigger front panel board, and possibly
a bigger control board... It's not just a matter of making a bigger =
panel
and strapping in a wiring harness - the switches and pots and connectors
are designed in, so it would mean a respin of all that. What that costs
in actual dollars, I am not sure - but I don't know how many hams
are hanging on for a bigger K2. I doubt it's many, but you can't deny =
that
if a Yaesu packaging engineer did the K2 over it would be popular.=20

But as it stands, I think they did a SUPER job on functionality at the
front panel level. SO many things are accessible from the main menu.=20
I find the above-below labeling for press vs. hold to be handy. (Did =
Ten-Tec
goof on that with the Argonaut V? It looks confusing to me.) Features
like fast-play, press-and-hold reverse (for checking tx freq activity
in split ops), etc, are real winners.=20

Coffee hasn't kicked in. I'm rambling. My bottom line is that the K1
and K2 have reasonable ergonomics and appearance, and you can open them
up with only one kind of screwdriver. :-)

Andy
Tom Whitehead
2003-04-30 14:10:00 UTC
Permalink
The NC-300! THAT was a receiver! I always aspired to own one when I could
afford it. Now, technology has changed so much it wouldn't be very useful.
But on your larger point, I think Wayne and Eric have built the foundation
for a bigger business with a broader customer base than the Field Day crowd.
I plan to use my K2/100 only in the shack. Also, I would like to have a
bigger unit for my bigger hands, and a little NC-300-like "style" would be
great. If I want mobile, I will build a K1. But then it's great just to
have a source of really FB kits.

73,
Tom, W6WW
-----Original Message-----
Now that the door has been opened, some of us in that
category would like to see a larger, more stylish,
full of lights/knobs/buttons radio that would
feel comfortable to operate and look good in a dedicated ham
shack. It doesn't have to look like the latest CD player, but be
something a little more substantial looking on the operating desk.
Great points - question is, who's the packaging engineer at
Elecraft? I'm guessing "he" is Wayne and Eric... The big guns
can have all kinds of fancy front panel moldings, LCD matrix
displays, backlit buttons -- it's like a car: you have to make
this year's model look "better" than last year's, regardless of
whether the bill of materials for the powertrain changed one bit.

I grew up starting at the S-meter of a National HRO-50 receiver.
Now, THAT is an S-meter! Beautiful red and yellow, backlit with
black background. When someone mentioned having a bigger K2, even
if it meant lots of empty space, the first rig I thought of was
the National NC-300. I've never owned one, but this is a huge
ham band receiver with a drum slide-rule dial and miniature tubes --
LOTS of empty space inside!

Raymond Loewy, who designed lots of Art Deco style things, did
the Hallicrafters SX-42 and humble S-38 receivers, from what I
remember. But that wasn't exactly a low budget, two-engineer
operation.

The K1 and the K2 look okay to me. At first, I didn't care for the
tactile pushbuttons - it felt like a cheap microwave or something.
But now I like them, maybe even more so than the floppy conductive
rubber style buttons on other modern rigs. The nomenclature on
the front panel is okay -- though I wish there was room for
a bit more, especially for the two-button-press functions like
"AGC OFF" and "WHAT FILTER AM I USING?" - though it is not hard
to remember that. For some reason, I would prefer a "PHONES" label
on the headphone jack. The icon looks incongruous. And did you
notice that the K1 has the Elecraft logo but the K2 doesn't?

The powdercoat paint seems to stand up VERY well.

Ergonomics on the rigs are not terrible. It's obvious that Wayne
and Eric aimed for portability, even though many people would later
use the K2 as a shack-only rig. As a result, the knobs are a bit
small, a bit cramped. I'd be happier if the tuning knob were moved
to the right 1/4 inch, which would keep me from bumping into the
smaller knobs to the left.

A bigger front panel would mean a bigger front panel board, and possibly
a bigger control board... It's not just a matter of making a bigger panel
and strapping in a wiring harness - the switches and pots and connectors
are designed in, so it would mean a respin of all that. What that costs
in actual dollars, I am not sure - but I don't know how many hams
are hanging on for a bigger K2. I doubt it's many, but you can't deny that
if a Yaesu packaging engineer did the K2 over it would be popular.

But as it stands, I think they did a SUPER job on functionality at the
front panel level. SO many things are accessible from the main menu.
I find the above-below labeling for press vs. hold to be handy. (Did Ten-Tec
goof on that with the Argonaut V? It looks confusing to me.) Features
like fast-play, press-and-hold reverse (for checking tx freq activity
in split ops), etc, are real winners.

Coffee hasn't kicked in. I'm rambling. My bottom line is that the K1
and K2 have reasonable ergonomics and appearance, and you can open them
up with only one kind of screwdriver. :-)

Andy
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list: ***@mailman.qth.net
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
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WQ8Q
2003-04-30 14:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Hi Andy.

Yup, I'm agreeing with many of your points. But I do have several friends
who agree that they would be more interested in the K2 if they made it a bit
larger . . . that being said: don't know if they'd actually buy one! You
know how that goes. I'm in the piano technician business; people come in to
a piano store all the time and comment on how lovely the white piano is . .
. but they would never buy one! So you never know.
I just know that having passed the 55 year mark and I tend to like a little
larger buttons and display on my radios that I intend for daily use.

I think TenTec did drop the ball somewhat on the Argo V. I'd considered it,
but don't care for the ergonomics and, really, the price, for what it is.
But the dyed-in-the-wool TenTec lover would love two tin cans on a string if
they were painted the right color and said TenTec. There has been an
ongoing (read "hot") discussion on the TenTec list for OVER A YEAR on the
fact that TenTec at some point changed the color of the dot between Ten and
Tec from orange to black! And when they brought out the new Orion in BLACK,
of all things, instead of TenTec gray, you'd thought it was the Armageddon .
.
Now, I really like TenTec products and love my Omni V with it's full set of
filters, but then I managed to pick it up at Dayton last year for $450
because the display and receive didn't work. Knowing TenTec, I figured a
couple of their mass terminal connectors had come loose, and sure enough
that was the problem! 15 minute fix!

So now I'm feverishly working building on my K1 for use out at our country
property where I have long wire antennas strung up in very tall trees!

73 de Rick, WQ8Q
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wallace, Andy" <***@mc.com>
To: "WQ8Q" <***@earthlink.net>; <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Re:"What else can I design for you...."
-----Original Message-----
Now that the door has been opened, some of us in that
category would like to see a larger, more stylish,
full of lights/knobs/buttons radio that would
feel comfortable to operate and look good in a dedicated ham
shack. It doesn't have to look like the latest CD player, but be
something a little more substantial looking on the operating desk.
Great points - question is, who's the packaging engineer at
Elecraft? I'm guessing "he" is Wayne and Eric... The big guns
can have all kinds of fancy front panel moldings, LCD matrix
displays, backlit buttons -- it's like a car: you have to make
this year's model look "better" than last year's, regardless of
whether the bill of materials for the powertrain changed one bit.

I grew up starting at the S-meter of a National HRO-50 receiver.
Now, THAT is an S-meter! Beautiful red and yellow, backlit with
black background. When someone mentioned having a bigger K2, even
if it meant lots of empty space, the first rig I thought of was
the National NC-300. I've never owned one, but this is a huge
ham band receiver with a drum slide-rule dial and miniature tubes --
LOTS of empty space inside!

Raymond Loewy, who designed lots of Art Deco style things, did
the Hallicrafters SX-42 and humble S-38 receivers, from what I
remember. But that wasn't exactly a low budget, two-engineer
operation.

The K1 and the K2 look okay to me. At first, I didn't care for the
tactile pushbuttons - it felt like a cheap microwave or something.
But now I like them, maybe even more so than the floppy conductive
rubber style buttons on other modern rigs. The nomenclature on
the front panel is okay -- though I wish there was room for
a bit more, especially for the two-button-press functions like
"AGC OFF" and "WHAT FILTER AM I USING?" - though it is not hard
to remember that. For some reason, I would prefer a "PHONES" label
on the headphone jack. The icon looks incongruous. And did you
notice that the K1 has the Elecraft logo but the K2 doesn't?

The powdercoat paint seems to stand up VERY well.

Ergonomics on the rigs are not terrible. It's obvious that Wayne
and Eric aimed for portability, even though many people would later
use the K2 as a shack-only rig. As a result, the knobs are a bit
small, a bit cramped. I'd be happier if the tuning knob were moved
to the right 1/4 inch, which would keep me from bumping into the
smaller knobs to the left.

A bigger front panel would mean a bigger front panel board, and possibly
a bigger control board... It's not just a matter of making a bigger panel
and strapping in a wiring harness - the switches and pots and connectors
are designed in, so it would mean a respin of all that. What that costs
in actual dollars, I am not sure - but I don't know how many hams
are hanging on for a bigger K2. I doubt it's many, but you can't deny that
if a Yaesu packaging engineer did the K2 over it would be popular.

But as it stands, I think they did a SUPER job on functionality at the
front panel level. SO many things are accessible from the main menu.
I find the above-below labeling for press vs. hold to be handy. (Did Ten-Tec
goof on that with the Argonaut V? It looks confusing to me.) Features
like fast-play, press-and-hold reverse (for checking tx freq activity
in split ops), etc, are real winners.

Coffee hasn't kicked in. I'm rambling. My bottom line is that the K1
and K2 have reasonable ergonomics and appearance, and you can open them
up with only one kind of screwdriver. :-)

Andy
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list: ***@mailman.qth.net
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
See: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wallace, Andy" <***@mc.com>
To: "WQ8Q" <***@earthlink.net>; <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Re:"What else can I design for you...."
-----Original Message-----
Now that the door has been opened, some of us in that
category would like to see a larger, more stylish,
full of lights/knobs/buttons radio that would
feel comfortable to operate and look good in a dedicated ham
shack. It doesn't have to look like the latest CD player, but be
something a little more substantial looking on the operating desk.
Great points - question is, who's the packaging engineer at
Elecraft? I'm guessing "he" is Wayne and Eric... The big guns
can have all kinds of fancy front panel moldings, LCD matrix
displays, backlit buttons -- it's like a car: you have to make
this year's model look "better" than last year's, regardless of
whether the bill of materials for the powertrain changed one bit.

I grew up starting at the S-meter of a National HRO-50 receiver.
Now, THAT is an S-meter! Beautiful red and yellow, backlit with
black background. When someone mentioned having a bigger K2, even
if it meant lots of empty space, the first rig I thought of was
the National NC-300. I've never owned one, but this is a huge
ham band receiver with a drum slide-rule dial and miniature tubes --
LOTS of empty space inside!

Raymond Loewy, who designed lots of Art Deco style things, did
the Hallicrafters SX-42 and humble S-38 receivers, from what I
remember. But that wasn't exactly a low budget, two-engineer
operation.

The K1 and the K2 look okay to me. At first, I didn't care for the
tactile pushbuttons - it felt like a cheap microwave or something.
But now I like them, maybe even more so than the floppy conductive
rubber style buttons on other modern rigs. The nomenclature on
the front panel is okay -- though I wish there was room for
a bit more, especially for the two-button-press functions like
"AGC OFF" and "WHAT FILTER AM I USING?" - though it is not hard
to remember that. For some reason, I would prefer a "PHONES" label
on the headphone jack. The icon looks incongruous. And did you
notice that the K1 has the Elecraft logo but the K2 doesn't?

The powdercoat paint seems to stand up VERY well.

Ergonomics on the rigs are not terrible. It's obvious that Wayne
and Eric aimed for portability, even though many people would later
use the K2 as a shack-only rig. As a result, the knobs are a bit
small, a bit cramped. I'd be happier if the tuning knob were moved
to the right 1/4 inch, which would keep me from bumping into the
smaller knobs to the left.

A bigger front panel would mean a bigger front panel board, and possibly
a bigger control board... It's not just a matter of making a bigger panel
and strapping in a wiring harness - the switches and pots and connectors
are designed in, so it would mean a respin of all that. What that costs
in actual dollars, I am not sure - but I don't know how many hams
are hanging on for a bigger K2. I doubt it's many, but you can't deny that
if a Yaesu packaging engineer did the K2 over it would be popular.

But as it stands, I think they did a SUPER job on functionality at the
front panel level. SO many things are accessible from the main menu.
I find the above-below labeling for press vs. hold to be handy. (Did Ten-Tec
goof on that with the Argonaut V? It looks confusing to me.) Features
like fast-play, press-and-hold reverse (for checking tx freq activity
in split ops), etc, are real winners.

Coffee hasn't kicked in. I'm rambling. My bottom line is that the K1
and K2 have reasonable ergonomics and appearance, and you can open them
up with only one kind of screwdriver. :-)

Andy
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list: ***@mailman.qth.net
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
See: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
Wallace, Andy
2003-04-30 14:35:02 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
From: Wallace, Andy=20
=20
I grew up starting at the S-meter of a National HRO-50 receiver.
Now, THAT is an S-meter! Beautiful red and yellow, backlit with
black background.=20
Ugh, that should be "staring" not "starting." And I forgot
to make the comment that in those days, the S meter may
have been more important. I was listening to SW broadcasters
in AM mode, and had to use a control on the front of the radio
called the ANTENNA TRIMMER, which some of you may remember.
When you QSYed a fair amount, or switched bands, you always
re-peaked the trimmer.=20

We've come a long way since the HRO, but I wouldn't turn
down push-pull 6V6 audio for the K2. hi

Andy
COLIN WHITMORE
2003-04-30 23:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Ok, here's my wish!

How about a K2 on some steroids? Make it with all the current features and
performances of the K2, include the 100 watt option, the KAT100 option, some
DSP ability, transverter capability (more than it has now), maybe even
include some AM and FM (for the transverter). Also, include a wide coverage
receiver as a second RX. This would satisfy the dual RX people as well as
the SWL guys (or gals). Well, and lets not forget some of the fine wishes
that other 'Crafters have dreamed of. (reasonable wishes of course) Box it
into one single package and call it a K3! It could rival the new Orion!

As a seperate wish, how about a armchair control pad like Ten-Tec? It could
have the optical encoder, RIT/XIT pot, 2 or 3 function keys, and a 10-key
pad. Maybe set it up like a 4X5 key arrangement. Have it in the standard
10-key configuration with the * and # keys being band switching keys. Then
have three function keys to the left of the 10-key pad across from the 1, 4,
and 7 keys with the RIT/XIT pot right below them!

Cheers,
Colin
N0YGY



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Tom, W6WW
2003-05-01 19:43:01 UTC
Permalink
Good point about nostalgia. I'm not sure it would carry over to my old AT-1
& AR-2. Any thoughts about what tx would go with the NC-300?

73
Tom, W6WW
Post by Tom Whitehead
The NC-300! THAT was a receiver! I always aspired to own
one when I could
afford it. Now, technology has changed so much it wouldn't
be very useful.
Well, they are still around -- go to local ham flea markets
and check Ebay.

Actually, I have several boatanchor rigs just for nostalgia.
It is a kick to use an antique rig. It's like driving an
antique car. Sure, performance won't be like the K2, of course,
but that's not the intent. You can have a lot of fun with old
rigs, and believe it or not, tubes are easier to find than
1980s transistors.
Post by Tom Whitehead
I plan to use my K2/100 only in the shack. Also, I would
like to have a
bigger unit for my bigger hands, and a little NC-300-like
"style" would be
great. If I want mobile, I will build a K1. But then it's
great just to
have a source of really FB kits.
All great points. Same with me, too. I started with the K1 and
promised myself the K2 once I made 100 countries. Did that a year
later -- which is amazing considering my only antenna is a 35'
randomwire!

I can't wait to hear what the new product(s) will be...

So anyway - look at this boatanchor shack:

http://www.w2ec.com/W2EC.html

Andy

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