Discussion:
[Elecraft] RE: KIO2 Required if you Remote the KPA100?
Lyle Johnson
2002-11-13 16:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Hello Martin!
Planning to order a KPA100 & KAT100 to install them in EC2,
i wonder wether i need an extra KIO or will i be fine with the one
supplied with the KPA100.
You need a way to get the control signals from the K2 to the
EC2/KPA100/KAT100. The best way to do this is with a KIO2 in the K2.

73,

Lyle KK7P
Don Brown
2002-11-14 15:36:00 UTC
Permalink
Hi

Sorry I would have responded sooner but I was in Crawford Texas all day
yesterday upgrading one of the controllers and the firmware for a rather
famous person's waste water treatment plant.

The simplest way to do the remote mount is with a KIO2 in the K2. You only
need to build a 9 pin to 9 pin cable, buy or build a BNC cable for the RF
and the usual power cable.

It is possible to make a cable that plugs into the control board directly to
a 9 pin connector on the back of the K2 but you will need to duplicate the
filtering in the KIO2 on the pins of the 9 pin D connector to keep RF off of
the AUX BUSS and other control lines. You will need to come up with your own
source of parts and connectors to make this cable and of course this will
not supply any RS232 signals.

The best method is the KIO2 in the K2. The RS232 part of the IO in the
KPA100 is not used in this setup. The RS232 cable is a "Y" cable that plugs
into the KIO2 with one connector for the computer and the other for the
remote KPA100/KAT100

You will need to order the KPA100, KAT100-2, an EC2 and the tilt stand if
you want one and a KIO2 to make this all work. You will also need a ~2 ft
BNC to BNC 50 ohm cable to connect the remote unit to the K2, a short pl239
to pl239 50 ohm cable to connect the KPA100 to the KAT100 and the power
supply cables for the KPA100 and the K2

Don Brown
KD5NDB


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hammond NØSS" <***@earthlink.net>
To: "Don Brown" <***@msn.com>; "Lyle Johnson" <***@fidalgo.net>
Cc: "Martin" <***@t-online.de>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:10 AM
Subject: KIO2 Required if you Remote the KPA100?
Just received this note from Martin (DL1IAQ) and figgered you could
respond
much more appropriately to his query than I.
Please respond to him directly and via the reflector, for the benefit of
us
all.
Thanks, appreciated!
Tom
________________
Hello Tom.
I sent an email to the reflector yesterday, but today it is not on the
reflector.
Now i ask you directly, coz i believe that there would have been
a reply from you anyway ;-)
Planning to order a KPA100 & KAT100 to install them in EC2,
i wonder wether i need an extra KIO or will i be fine with the one
supplied with the KPA100.
...............................................................
Hope not to bother you.
73
Martin
Wallace, Andy
2002-11-14 15:52:01 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
It is possible to make a cable that plugs into the control
board directly to
a 9 pin connector on the back of the K2 but you will need to
duplicate the
filtering in the KIO2 on the pins of the 9 pin D connector to
keep RF off of
the AUX BUSS and other control lines. You will need to come
up with your own
source of parts and connectors to make this cable and of
course this will
not supply any RS232 signals.
I would love to see a diagram of this -- even chicken scratches
on a napkin.

As I mentioned to Don earlier, if I buy the K2 I plan to use it as
a home station, so portability is not paramount. Therefore, I would
probably order the K2 to begin with, and add the KPA100 later on,
and mount it in the K2 cover rather than remotely. However, I would
rather buy the KAT100 tuner NOW, and use it with the QRP K2, since I
will use the tuner with the KPA100 later on.

My point is that it would be GREAT if Elecraft could come up with
a small kit for just such an interface -- running the KAT100 from the
low power K2, rather than having to spend $89 on a KIO2 and resell it
once I buy the KPA100 (which has the circuitry).

I am sure others have a similar desire.

-Andy
Don Brown
2002-11-14 16:38:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi

OK I will take a stab at describing the cable. Please note I have not done
this yet so I am not sure of any problems that may arise.

You will need to order from Elecraft or from some other source the 10 pin
female connector with the pins that is used to connect the KAT2 to the
control board. Using a shielded 4 conductor cable install a pin and insert
into pin 8, 10 and 2. connect the shield and the 4th wire to pin 6. Connect
a .01 uf cap with short leads from pins 6, 7, and 8 of the female 9 pin D
connector to the metal back of the connector. Connect a jumper wire from the
metal back of the connector to pin 1. Then connect the wires from the cable
to the 9 pin connector pins. As in the chart below

10 pin 9 pin D

10 7
8 8
6 1
2 6 through a 15 uH choke

The AUX BUSS wire from pin 2 of the control board needs to connect through a
15 uH choke on the 9 pin D end of the cable. Connect the choke to the
junction of pin 6 and the capacitor and then connect the wire to the other
end of the choke. Use some shrink tubing over the choke to strengthen the
connection so the wire will not break easily. The circuit diagram of all of
this in in the KPA100 or KIO2 manual. Mount the 9 pin D connector to the
back of the K2 where the KIO2 would mount and plug the other end of the
cable into the control board IO connector

Don Brown
KD5NDB


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wallace, Andy" <***@mc.com>
To: "'Don Brown'" <***@msn.com>; "Elecraft" <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 8:50 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Re: KIO2 Required if you Remote the KPA100?
Post by Wallace, Andy
-----Original Message-----
It is possible to make a cable that plugs into the control
board directly to
a 9 pin connector on the back of the K2 but you will need to
duplicate the
filtering in the KIO2 on the pins of the 9 pin D connector to
keep RF off of
the AUX BUSS and other control lines. You will need to come
up with your own
source of parts and connectors to make this cable and of
course this will
not supply any RS232 signals.
I would love to see a diagram of this -- even chicken scratches
on a napkin.
As I mentioned to Don earlier, if I buy the K2 I plan to use it as
a home station, so portability is not paramount. Therefore, I would
probably order the K2 to begin with, and add the KPA100 later on,
and mount it in the K2 cover rather than remotely. However, I would
rather buy the KAT100 tuner NOW, and use it with the QRP K2, since I
will use the tuner with the KPA100 later on.
My point is that it would be GREAT if Elecraft could come up with
a small kit for just such an interface -- running the KAT100 from the
low power K2, rather than having to spend $89 on a KIO2 and resell it
once I buy the KPA100 (which has the circuitry).
I am sure others have a similar desire.
-Andy
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Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
See: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
Mario Lorenz
2002-11-14 17:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Brown
Hi
OK I will take a stab at describing the cable. Please note I have not done
this yet so I am not sure of any problems that may arise.
[...]

Once you do this your way, you assume that no KAT2 is built in the K2.
This however is one of the few reasons why one would want to remote the
KPA in the first place. The propper solution would be building the splitter
which is part of the KIO kit, which splits the 10pin connector to drive
both the KAT and the KIO. OK, depending on how much you value a "clean"
design, you probably could grab the signals from the KAT2.

You will have to duplicate the relevant RF blocking features on these lines,
which is another part of the KIO kit.

And you are still lacking Computer control, because the RS232 lines have not
yet been taken care of. If you added a small PCB with the TTL<->RS232 level
adapter (aka MAX232), voila, you would have fully duplicated the KIO, probably
at a fraction of its price. You will have to judge yourself if this is
ethically correct.

The other possibility would be to run the RS232 TTL lines out and in the KPA
or KAT100. I think there are two NC'd pins on the DB9 connector. However,
the more unusual you set up these connectors, the more you risk damage to
various components (K2, KPA, KAT, Computer) should you accidentally wire
up the units incorrectly. I have spent some thought into
the idea of doing away with the DB9 connectors and use VGA connectors which
have more pins and are less likely to be mistaken by accident. I do assume
I'll have to add RF protection for the TTL RS232 lines, too.

Overall, if you can spare the money, the KIO is most likely the best way
to go, in particular since this most likely supports the cost of writing
the elecraft remote software.

Mario
Don Brown
2002-11-14 18:41:00 UTC
Permalink
Hi

As I said in the post the KIO2 is the best way to do this and if you have a
KAT2 in your K2 then you must do it with a KIO2. However the question was
what do you do if you are buying the KAT100 in the anticipation of upgrading
to a KPA100 and want to operate QRP with the KAT100 for the time being. It
does not make much sense to buy the KIO2 just to drive the KAT100 and then
not need it when the KPA100 is acquired a short time later. The cable I
described could be built for a few dollars and the $90 the KIO2 cost could
be better placed toward the KPA100 or some other option. I think a lot of
people will want to take this option if the ultimate goal is to go QRO with
the KPA100. The KIO2 and KAT2 are great options for QRP and/or portable use
but if the 100 watt version is your direction then you could use the KAT100
and K2 alone for a while until the funds and/or time are ready for the
KPA100

Don Brown


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mario Lorenz" <***@vdazone.org>
To: <***@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: KIO2 Required if you Remote the KPA100?
Post by Mario Lorenz
Post by Don Brown
Hi
OK I will take a stab at describing the cable. Please note I have not done
this yet so I am not sure of any problems that may arise.
[...]
Once you do this your way, you assume that no KAT2 is built in the K2.
This however is one of the few reasons why one would want to remote the
KPA in the first place. The propper solution would be building the splitter
which is part of the KIO kit, which splits the 10pin connector to drive
both the KAT and the KIO. OK, depending on how much you value a "clean"
design, you probably could grab the signals from the KAT2.
You will have to duplicate the relevant RF blocking features on these lines,
which is another part of the KIO kit.
And you are still lacking Computer control, because the RS232 lines have not
yet been taken care of. If you added a small PCB with the TTL<->RS232 level
adapter (aka MAX232), voila, you would have fully duplicated the KIO, probably
at a fraction of its price. You will have to judge yourself if this is
ethically correct.
The other possibility would be to run the RS232 TTL lines out and in the KPA
or KAT100. I think there are two NC'd pins on the DB9 connector. However,
the more unusual you set up these connectors, the more you risk damage to
various components (K2, KPA, KAT, Computer) should you accidentally wire
up the units incorrectly. I have spent some thought into
the idea of doing away with the DB9 connectors and use VGA connectors which
have more pins and are less likely to be mistaken by accident. I do assume
I'll have to add RF protection for the TTL RS232 lines, too.
Overall, if you can spare the money, the KIO is most likely the best way
to go, in particular since this most likely supports the cost of writing
the elecraft remote software.
Mario
_______________________________________________
You must be a list member to post to the list.
Postings must be plain text (no HTML or attachments).
See: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Elecraft Web Page: http://www.elecraft.com
Wallace, Andy
2002-11-14 18:12:00 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Once you do this your way, you assume that no KAT2 is built in the K2.
This however is one of the few reasons why one would want to
remote the KPA in the first place.
Mario, what Don was proposing was per my request: my intention was
to run the QRP K2 and KAT100 together -- WITHOUT having either
the KAT2 OR the KIO2. It's my intention, if I get a K2, to get
the KPA100 a little while later -- but I need a tuner with my antenna
setup. Rather than buying the K2 and KAT2 for QRP use, I wanted to
have the KAT100. I also did not want to buy the KIO2 to communicate
with the KAT100 if possible, because that (like the KAT2) would be
surplus to my needs once I did foot the bill for the KPA100.

The K2 would have the KAT100 under it and eventually have the KPA100
in the top cover, not remoted at all.

Does that make sense? Hopefully this will make things clear.
Don wasn't going in the direction you were talking about at all -
it was just a solution for what I was proposing.

I never intend to have a computer in the hamshack, so not having
RS232 control is not an issue for me -- I just needed a way for the
K2 bus to talk to the KAT100 without the KIO2 (unendorsed by Elecraft
of course!).

-Andy
Lyle Johnson
2002-11-14 20:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Hi!
...what do you do if you are buying the KAT100 in the
anticipation of upgrading to a KPA100 and want to operate
QRP with the KAT100 for the time being. It does not make
much sense to buy the KIO2 just to drive the KAT100 and then
not need it when the KPA100 is acquired a short time later.
I have added a diagram and brief explanatory notes on my web page in case
you want to do this... http://www.fidalgo.net/~wa7gxd

72/73,

Lyle KK7P

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